topic Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair. in Selling

Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

jmhme2002 — Mon, 30 Dec 2013 23:14:53 GMT

A buyer (############) is currently the buyer of one of my items.

Firstly, the email address given (###############@%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%)does not seem to exist. A message sent to it comes back as undeliverable.

I googled %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%and found that it is the store of another ebay member ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Because the single bid was made in the last 4 seconds and the feedback score is low, I checked this buyer's (###########) and the other's ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^past history of feedback etc.

It is not pretty!! In a number of cases positive feedback was left but the comments reveal that there is a lot wrong with how this member conducts herself/himself. Sellers are clearly afraid of giving a negative rating but that is very clearly how they feel.

There is also a common seller for them both (&&&&&&&) which may or may not mean that they are connected in some way.

I think that it is time for ebay to do something about what is going on here. If sellers are to have the confidence that the system is fair then it will be a good environment in which to continue selling. Clearly a number of sellers have suffered at the hands of whoever is behind these usernames.

When an unfair negative is given then the seller suffers that loss of reputation for a long time. But unfair negatives are given very casually by strange, deluded, mistaken or even nutty buyers. The feedback system is therefore in bad need of repair.

In the meantime I will just wait and see if I get paid for my item. We will just see what happens.....waiting in anticipation LOL

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:20:13 GMT

It is certainly time ebay did something about those sellers who breach policy by leaving positive feedback with neg comments, actually it is something they are quick to act upon if it is reported!

How can sellers be afraid of leaving neg feedback? They have been unable to do so for nearly six years.

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

jmhme2002 — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:33:07 GMT

Hello,

I am not trying to get anything done about the sellers who breach policy by leaving positive feedback but with negative comments!!

I am trying to get something done about the consistently bad buyers who really do deserve those negative comments. It is not fair that a particular user consistenly treats sellers so badly by bidding and then not paying.

(Yes I forgot about not being able to leave negs for buyers but I think that a seller should be able somehow to warn others about bad bidders.) j

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

davewil1964 — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 02:29:37 GMT

@jmhme2002 wrote:
Hello,

I am not trying to get anything done about the sellers who breach policy by leaving positive feedback but with negative comments!!

I am trying to get something done about the consistently bad buyers who really do deserve those negative comments. It is not fair that a particular user consistenly treats sellers so badly by bidding and then not paying.

(Yes I forgot about not being able to leave negs for buyers but I think that a seller should be able somehow to warn others about bad bidders.) j

And this would have helped in your case, how? Given they bid in the last 4 seconds you wouldn't have had time to check their feedback before the auction finished. And once the auction has finished, warnings aren't much use..

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

haolove13 — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:52:05 GMT

This is where the credibility of Ebay is non existant.

Six years ago there were allegations of sellers extorting positive feedback.

I personally never experienced it or knew of anyone doing it. (I would love to see some actual statistics on this not just fairy tales)

So many sellers are wasting time and dollars as the daily new reports from new names shows. And all we get is the same old lame stories from a small handful of people defending Ebay.

Today I communicated with another victim of a serial non payer who now has 28 false positives in the the last two months plus who knows how many strikes from people like me. His rating is still 100 % and he is still wasting time and money from innocent sellers. He is known to have had 128 winning bids but only 15 are positive feedback and there are 28 false positives. so possibly 80 or more have resulted in unpaid item strikes.

Does Ebay really need customers like that.????????????????

Do we need to open litigation?

Enough is enough LETS COME CLEAN IN FOURTEEN !!!!!

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

jmhme2002 — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 22:09:37 GMT

Hi Dave,

Your're right. It would not have helped me. But if other sellers who have not yet been a victim of this particular bad bidder knew about her/him maybe they could block them.

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

go-tazz — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 22:49:55 GMT

If every seller gave them a none payment strike and then all selllers had the blocks in place exlcuding all buyer with

more then two strikes the problem would be solved,(as they wouldn't be able to bid on any items).

The system is in place,please use it,(false positives achieve nothing),

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

chameleon54 — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 23:51:03 GMT

As a newbie buyer six years ago, I had a couple of bad experiences with ebay scams ( I was still pretty innocent back then ) On both occasions I was subjected to feedback extortion by the sellers, so in my experience the system still suited the scammers. I still left the Negs but copped negs in return. ( it was a big decision to take when you only have 30 or 40 feedbacks, not for the faint hearted ) The suggestion by many in other threads, that ebay post an automated Neg. to buyers feedback every time they have a non payment case resolved against them makes more sense. This would be a very public display of thier buyer integrity and would shame many into acting more responsibly. The blocks for two or more strikes do help a bit, but are not the full answer.

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

haolove13 — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 02:04:41 GMT

I still would like to know some actual figures about feedback extortion as if we are just doing our job there is no need to communicate about feedback. You only get problems when there is a problem under the old system.

But now our ability to trade is subject to anonymous "perceptions" of an experience with no justification or evidence required.

It must be that people are using the system for dishonest reasons and Ebay needs to clean up this area significantly.

If everyone was just doing their job AND BEING HONEST we would not need to discuss low DSR etc.

I spoke with a person who also suffered from a NPB like I did. I went through the dispute process and he got one strike.

The other seller has told me how he starts a dispute, leaves the false positive and then closes the dispute so it means this clown has at least 7 strikes against his name and more probably 20 plus.

If I had seven strikes in a rating of 38 I would be closed down. But this clown continues to trade and the system allows him to continue.

My opinion is a trial period of three months would clean the system out very effectively so we could all get on with just buying and selling on Ebay.

This current system of having to apologise for people not completing 10% of sales is just plain ridiculous.

This is beyond a joke.

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

tstore — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 03:00:45 GMT

If non payers would receive automatic negative feedback, it would harm them if they were to sell something. This would be the only real benefit.

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

chameleon54 — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 03:30:11 GMT

TSTORE, The same could be said for seller generated & posted negative feedback. It would only hurt if they sell. I still think if the NPB buyers had an ebay generic red dot every time they didnt pay it would make some ( not all ) more responsible. Some sellers have indicated they would cancel bids from serial non payers if they could see thier neg. feedback. The system is already set up to do this with the ability to block bidders with two or more non payments in three months. ( or whatever combination you choose ). If all sellers had blocks in place it would sort the NPB,s out pretty quickly. I,m not supporting ebay or NPB,s on this and think changes to policy are due. I just think the old system of sellers being able to leave Neg feedback didnt work. Even if it made some sellers feel a bit better for a few minutes. Auto generated Negs for NPB,s would be fairer for everyone than the current system. Ebay needs to take a serious look at this problem because it does seem that NPB,s are becoming more common and have gone from a mild annoyance to a very real issue for sellers. It is spoiling the Ebay experience and contributing to turning many sellers away from trading through ebay.

Re: Negative comments hidden behind positve feedback. The feedback system needs repair.

digital*ghost — Wed, 01 Jan 2014 04:57:02 GMT

On a site where purchases can be made/confirmed without payment, there is no one solution that will stop or stem the instances of NPB. The only thing that will genuinely resolve this problem is a properly functioning system where you can not buy an item without paying for it.

NPBs occur just as frequently on other sites where neg feedback for buyers is possible, where a simple system-generated comment is left for non-payment (No payment received from buyer after X days), or the seller can write their own comment if payment was received. The negs affect the member's rating forever, not just for the last 12 months, and people also still come to the forums of these sites wondering what to do about NPBs, how to deal with the situation and how to block repeat offenders in the future. Why? Because so few educate themselves about the system(s) in place on the sites they use until it's too late.

No matter what kind of feedback or NPB system a site has in place, it will only have a hope of working properly if it is either a) in place by default, or b) understood and used by the majority, not the minority (and eBay plays their own significant part in undermining their own system, by removing strikes and allowing members free-reign to create new IDs that can circumvent blocks - other sites allow one ID only, and both can be sanctioned if this policy is breached. I like having separate IDs for buying/selling, and I know that eBay can often detect if a seller is breaching policies with multiple IDs, so it's about time they used that for buyers breaching policies, too).

Is getting a neg feedback a true consequence? The idea that it will "shame" buyers into doing the right thing suggest that some people think it is, and it is (IMHO) misguided based on what I have seen on other trading sites, in fact the only buyers I have ever seen genuinely fear or be affected by a negative are those that received untrue or retalitory negs from sellers. Members that have received multiple negs for non-payment and/or other issues.... They just keep buying from whoever will let them, paying for some, but not all purchases.

I know the current system isn't perfect, but the notion that some form of negative feedback will solve all our NPB problems is an odd one, to me anyway. If eBay made it practical to eliminate the possibily of people buying then not paying, that would truly solve the issue and bring the site a little closer to the majority of their competitors.

Realistically, with the current system I don't feel I need to be informed about someones habit of not paying for their items - if they have a few strikes, they won't be able to buy mine in the first place. If they don't have strikes and buy, no matter what I'm still limited by eBay's UPI process. Yes, they waste a bit of my time, and yes they tie up stock for a bit (issues that vary in degrees for different sellers, I know) but on the whole it is not behaviour that is truly damaging long-term, at the very least not on the scale some other buying behaviours are.

Theft, fraudulent claims/chargebacks, malicious buying/feedback etc, now they are behaviours that can genuinely damage a seller/business, so I often wonder why so many only ever ask for the option to leave negs for NPBs. A buyer making consistent claims of damage in post, or other fraudulent actions, now that is information I could actually use post-sale, be it via a feedback system or some other method. I don't particularly want negs for buyer reintroduced, but while I can see the merit of it to a degree, NPBs is very far down my list of circumstances in which it would prove useful.