topic Open PayPal Case in Selling

Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 02:35:23 GMT

I have someone who bought 2 of my patterns, not on Ebay, and when I got back from the Post Office from mailing them, I find that they have opened a SNAD, case against me, because they went back and read the listing and saw that a crochet pattern is indeed a crochet pattern.

They have just emailed me, not through the resolution centre, that they want a refund immediately, but I can't refund them, because Paypal has put a hold on the payment.

What to do?

Re: Open PayPal Case

onlinecoinslismore — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 02:38:05 GMT

Hi,

Contact Paypal with your tracking / postal info and they should be able to see that it is a fraudulent cliam as the item has not even been receievd by the buyer yet. You will win the case.

Cheers

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 02:46:02 GMT

I sell patterns for between $4.50 and $5 with free postage. I send them in a letter, so no tracking. I will refund them. It has only cost me printer ink an envelope and 60 cents, but I am tempted to not refund seeing they have been cheeky enough to not even contact me.

I am pretty sure that they will not win. My items are clearly described as patterns with a warning in bold red, in each listing, that the item is a pattern only and not the finished items.

They are not being malicious, just clueless.

Re: Open PayPal Case

digital*ghost — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 02:51:08 GMT

I would contact PayPal and provide them with copies of the buyer's message(s) - claims like this should not be entertained, IMO, and the buyer needs to know it is not reasonable to do things like this just because they made a mistake.

Once PayPal understand that the buyer hasn't even received the items, and clearly indicated that they wanted a refund due to change of mind, PayPal will hopefully close the case as she has no buyer protection for change of mind.

If you accept returns, instruct the buyer to return them once they have received them - only then would I issue a refund, personally.

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 02:59:00 GMT

The buyer has now closed the case, because they apparently rang Paypal, because I could not refund them straight away ( I think that they thought that I was fibbing) and they wanted their $10.50 back immediately.

They also sent me an email apologising and saying that they thought that that is how to get in touch with me.There is a contact buyer button on the site I sold it on (handmade Aus), but they obviously didn't see that. I don't think reading is their strong point.

I have refunded them and asked that they send the patterns back. I don't need the patterns back, but I think that there should be some deterrent to not reading listings and prematurely opening cases.

Re: Open PayPal Case

digital*ghost — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:00:11 GMT

Glad to hear they've understood that it was not the way to go.

Re: Open PayPal Case

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:24:56 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
I would contact PayPal and provide them with copies of the buyer's message(s) - claims like this should not be entertained, IMO, and the buyer needs to know it is not reasonable to do things like this just because they made a mistake.

Once PayPal understand that the buyer hasn't even received the items, and clearly indicated that they wanted a refund due to change of mind, PayPal will hopefully close the case as she has no buyer protection for change of mind.

If you accept returns, instruct the buyer to return them once they have received them - only then would I issue a refund, personally.

plus they lied. they said it was SNAD, and as they hadn't received it they couldn't know that, so now they have gained funds by deception.

It's not Jen's fault that the little voices in their head said her listing told each other that it said something it didn't.and PayPal, did not have "the little voices" in mind when they devised their Buyer Protection. Yes, I realize that for a contract to be formed there has to be a "Meeting of the Minds", but I am pretty sure that it is not those minds that PayPal was thinking of.

Re: Open PayPal Case

k1ooo-slr-sales — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:40:43 GMT

@ajarnjenny wrote:
I have someone who bought 2 of my patterns, not on Ebay, and when I got back from the Post Office from mailing them, I find that they have opened a SNAD, case against me, because they went back and read the listing and saw that a crochet pattern is indeed a crochet pattern.

I understand that this thread is about patterns not bought on eBay, but if you intend to continue to sell these patterns on eBay at any time you should read the updated pictures policy http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/picture.html that came out recently.

I looked at one of your completed listings and there were three pictures of a crocheted item and no picture of a pattern printed on paper. Under the new policy I think you would struggle to continue to list that way. I say this because the policy update clearly states that you are allowed to include pitcures that Include large, clear photos of the item for sale and that you are not allowed to Include photos that don't accurately represent the item for sale. My interpretation of this update applied to your listings would be that you would be in breach as you are showing crocheted items and not printed patterns. I do not think that titles and descriptions can override the picture requirements.

I think you are going to need to have the pattern as your main picture in future eBay listings.

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 04:15:22 GMT

Mmmmm.............I think that I will do that for future listings. Most of the places I sell the patterns on have a digital download button that the buyer gets on their receipt and I use those same photos for them and hardly ever get this problem.

But Ebay buyers do seem to be a different kettle of fish.

I was not so concerned that they bought the patterns thinking that they were finished items, I would have refunded them straight away, more with them reading the listing after they had bought it and opening a case less than eight hours after they had bought it.

It seems really foolish, to buy the item and read the listing after they had bought it. It was not an auction, that was in its last moments.

And I was a little upset that they intimated that I was lying when I said that I could not immediately refund them because Paypal had their payment on hold.

I did not have to refund them at all, but I did.

Re: Open PayPal Case

k1ooo-slr-sales — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 04:42:17 GMT

@ajarnjenny wrote:

It seems really foolish, to buy the item and read the listing after they had bought it. It was not an auction, that was in its last moments.

many eBayers buy an item based on the first picture they see without really reading the Title and Description. The first picture they see is the Gallery picture.

From memory, you have had issues with buyers misunderstanding exactly what they will be receiving when they buy from your 'pattern' listings. I think that no matter what you do with your pictures, titles and descriptions, there will always be buyers who 'misunderstand' your listings. This is not a criticism, just an opinion. Good luck with future pattern listings.

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:04:26 GMT

No.....I am not offended, you made a good suggestion. I am not sure that I will keep on listing them here, but it will still happen occasionally wherever I list.

I list and have quite good sales on Ravelry, which is a knitting and crochet site. It is purely for patterns, no finished items at all on the whole site and I still get the occasional person buying, thinking they are getting the blanket in the mail with free shipping for $5.

I also sell more sucessfully on Etsy, which does have lots of physical items and hardly ever get people there thinking that they are getting the finished item. Maybe some sites categories are more defined than others.

Anyway, when these listings finish, I will take your advice and put up a picture of the pattern printed on paper for the next ones.

I have to say, that the people who buy my patterns and know that they are buying patterns, love them and I love selling to them.

They have sent me photos of their grandchildren wearing the item that they made from the pattern at the babies christening.

That is about as good as it gets for a seller, isn't it?

Re: Open PayPal Case

clarry100 — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:08:15 GMT

I have to agree with k1000-sir-sales here.

We are normally sellers but a couple of months ago we were looking for a life-like doll to use as a model for our headband pics.

We found a seller who we thought had what looked like really great dolls at good prices. We were unwittingly making the same mistake as most buyers do--- looking at the pictures and failing to read the descriptions.

So we submitted a bid.

Some hours later I was reading thru the descriptions on the listings and it started to become clear that the pics we were looking at were of finished dolls and what we had bid on was a "blank" unfinished doll. There was no picture of what we would actually receive. We don't have the skills or resources to paint/decorate to make it look anything like the depicted finished product.

So we contaced the seller about this and on that basis asked for the bid to be retracted. Well the response we got from the seller was an angry one. Very vindictive indeed.

In the end she agreed to cancel our bid.

So because of her angry response we reported the listing to ebay because we certainly found it to be misleading.

But to this day (months later) the very same listings are present so nothing was done about it.

Moral: The first pics should show what you will receive. Other pics can be of some finished product. Then the words in the decsription (for those who read them) can explain why the pics look different.

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:19:46 GMT

I will take your advice on board too, Clarry.

I don't know if anyone has suggested this to you Clarry, but some people find it is great fun to make your own models in the old fashioned way.

Re: Open PayPal Case

digital*ghost — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:20:33 GMT

@ajarnjenny wrote:

I also sell more sucessfully on Etsy, which does have lots of physical items and hardly ever get people there thinking that they are getting the finished item. Maybe some sites categories are more defined than others.

Etsy has a fairly different, established 'ethos', if you will, since it caters more specifically for the handmade market. People actually want/prefer to see a visual for the piece they'll be able to make, and with most artists/crafters charging appropriately (and them some, in some cases ) for their products, people don't really go there to find cheap bargains like they do here, so generally don't expect to find them and usually know that if something is $5, it's not likely to be a finished, handmade crochet item. Plus the "instant download" note is clearly displayed on gallery images and in the overview once the listing is open.

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 05:45:36 GMT

Yes, I agree about Etsy. Although they are having their problems now with cheap stuff from resellers.

It is a great site for people like me though. I make quite a few hundred dollars a month on Etsy, which is small pickings to most Ebay sellers, but, once I have made the items and written the pattern, it costs me only the fees to list and the FVF,( I have sold my best selling pattern over 220 times on Etsy), which is cheaper than Ebay's, although, you cannot just list it once on Etsy, you have to keep relisting it to stay at the top of the search pages which can become very expensive.

People complain long and loud about Ebay's fees, but I pay more fees on Etsy because of the relisting exercise.

Re: Open PayPal Case

k1ooo-slr-sales — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:17:34 GMT

clarry100 wrote:
Some hours later I was reading thru the descriptions on the listings and it started to become clear that the pics we were looking at were of finished dolls and what we had bid on was a "blank" unfinished doll. There was no picture of what we would actually receive. We don't have the skills or resources to paint/decorate to make it look anything like the depicted finished product.

thanks clarry.

My reading of the policy update for pictures would say that that listing for the doll would now be in breach of the pictures policy i.e. no picture of exactly what the item is, and if they still list that way then the listings are reportable.

clarry, it is k1ooo-slr-sales, but some boardies (read bullies) tease me by calling me Sir Sales . . . . . . LOL

Re: Open PayPal Case

ajarnjenny — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:24:03 GMT

Lol! and I am always complaining about buyers not reading and I though you were Sir Sales, not Slr sales.

Oh dear.

Re: Open PayPal Case

k1ooo-slr-sales — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:09:50 GMT

@ajarnjenny wrote:

Lol! and I am always complaining about buyers not reading and I though you were Sir Sales, not Slr sales.

Oh dear.

That's okay, I have put all those ~~bullies~~ boardies that call me Sir Sales on my Blocked Bidder List. That'll fix em

My ID comes from arguably the best Film SLR camera ever . . . . the Pentax K1000 SLR. I changed it a little to k1ooo instead of k1000 and we all know that you can not have capital letters in your ID otherwise I would have it as K1000-SLR-Sales

Re: Open PayPal Case

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:26:47 GMT

@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
clarry100 wrote:
Some hours later I was reading thru the descriptions on the listings and it started to become clear that the pics we were looking at were of finished dolls and what we had bid on was a "blank" unfinished doll. There was no picture of what we would actually receive. We don't have the skills or resources to paint/decorate to make it look anything like the depicted finished product.

thanks clarry.
My reading of the policy update for pictures would say that that listing for the doll would now be in breach of the pictures policy i.e. no picture of exactly what the item is, and if they still list that way then the listings are reportable.

clarry, it is k1ooo-slr-sales, but some boardies (read bullies) tease me by calling me Sir Sales . . . . . . LOL

don't think that went unnoticed....

Re: Open PayPal Case

k1ooo-slr-sales — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:39:48 GMT

@crikey*mate wrote:
don't think that went unnoticed....