topic Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer in Selling

Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

3415len — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:22:23 GMT

So here it is. The absolute 100% proof that eBay don't give a flick about their sellers.

We have been on eBay for many years and have over 10,000+ positive feedback. We are Australian based and we sell engineering tools all over the world.

In September we were scammed by a guy in the UK.

He bought an item that consisted of two parts. Part 1 weigh's 300 grams, part 2 weigh's 400 grams, totaling 700 grams . We sent the item by Australia Post's Registered International service.

We supplied the customer a tracking number, and he emailed us asking where his product was. We told him to use his tracking number and he said they tried to deliver to his company at 1:10am and said he would sort it out.

8 business day's later, he messages us again saying he didn't get Part B of his item.

We found it a bit odd he took this long to tell us, and we quickly assured him we would get to the bottom of this. He told us the parcel had 0 signs of being tampered with.

Upon checking our statement from Australia post, we found that Australia Post weighed the parcel and declared it 700 grams. This means when the parcel left our hands and was received by Australia Post, the article included both Part A & Part B, otherwise the parcel would of weighed less than 700 grams.

The buyer wanted a full refund for his purchase, and when we told him NO and provided document proof of the parcel leaving our hands with both parts inside. He did not accept this and escalated to a claim.

Here's the frustrating thing. He bought the item from OUR AUSTRALIAN eBay shop, yet we had to log in to EBAY UK to sort this out. What kind of rubbish is that. And if we wanted to speak to someone from eBay, it had to be done through the UK. OK that's extremely illogical.

Even after providing the document proof we sent this parcel, he still won the claim.

Currently, we are waiting for the item to arrive in our hands, as he is sending PART A back to us.When the item gets back in our hands, he will be issued a FULL REFUND INCLUDING POST.

Not to mention, all our listings state that we are not responsible for lost / stolen / tampered articles, which is the ONLY possible thing that could of happened if this guy was really telling the truth.

We have contacted 5 different people through phone to eBay about this. You know whats funny? The extreme awkward silence when the eBay employee responds with "I don't know" or "...." when we ask the question "What did we do wrong and how can we stop this from happening ever again"

I think we are well within our rights to say the parcel he is sending back to us never got to us so he does not get his money back.

And eBay, you should be ashamed. Your company policies are actually borderline criminal, your letting people get away with fraud.

So yeah, basically if you want free stuff, just buy things internationally and say you only got half of it. eBay won't do a thing to stop you.

Thanks for reading

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

*new2vintage — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:46:05 GMT

You can claim from Aus Post for the "missing" part can't you ? I don't want to sound unsympathetic but all sellers can be held responsible for missing, damaged or undelivered items.

No you should not be dishonest by claiming you haven't received the item. Lodge an appeal if you can.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

extra-keen — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:52:21 GMT

I am sorry this has happened to you, a very unpleasant experience.

I stopped selling internationally a couple of years ago because of just the type of problem you are having.

And yes my income is less, but the stress is WAY less.

Good luck with this one!:-(

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

bsal6160 — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:56:52 GMT

SO you have proof you sent a 700gram package. Looking at it from the outside, you could have posted anything that weighed 700grams. Just saying thats all. Another thing, despite what your listing said, you ARE responsible for the item until it reaches its destination.

How is this a scam? He is returning the parcel? If the parcel shows signs of tampering then you would have a case against the buyer but until then......

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:03:02 GMT

Being a business and within the professional arena, I am flabbergasted at such remarks and claims made in the OP's statement.

I was going to offer some excellent advice until I read the last few lines, so now I am perplexed and shaking my head.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:05:52 GMT

When selling overseas you agreed to comply with the protection applicable to the site the buyer purchases through, for the UK that means ebay buyer protection applies, not Paypal protection.

Although the time difference makes it less than ideal contacting UK ebay is not exactly difficult or expensive.

There is a site in the UK similar to that run by QLD police for auction fraud but as you have absolutely no proof that the buyer received both parts I don't fancy your chances. If you receive the parcel back and there is only one part you can try turning the tables and say that they have not sent back the item in it's original condition.

I am not sure if ebay UK come under the auspices of our financial services ombudsman but it may well be worth checking and if you can make a complaint from overseas inform ebay that is what you are going to do.

Once again unless there is documentation that the parcel weighed 700g when it was delivered to the buyer you may be on a sticky wicket.

The up side is that to send it back by trackable post with proof of delivery, not just proof of posting, will be expensive.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

*new2vintage — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:07:41 GMT

You'll be even less impressed if you read his responses to his feedback k5.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

crypsynight — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:27:38 GMT

Does your postal receipt have the weight on it?

If it does, and you receive back less than that weight, then item hasn't been returned in the same condition it was initially posted.

Just a thought.....

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

3415len — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:41:52 GMT

Wow.

I did absolutely everything in my power to get this article safely to my customer.

It was packaged well - he said it did NOT look like it had been tampered with.

PART A Weighs 300 grams

PART B Weights 400 Grams

Australia Post OFFICIALLY weighed the package as 700 Grams

If I only sent 1 part, Australia Post would of weighed the package as either 300 grams or 400 grams

Therefore, when the parcel left my hands, the package has DOCUMENTED PROOF that the item was sent complete.

So please. Tell me exactly what I have done wrong. I registered the parcel. I packaged it properly. I have proof from Australia Post I sent it EXACTLY as described. I provided ALL the evidence to eBay and I STILL LOST.

Tell me what else I need to do. Please, inform me exactly which part of my sales process I did wrong.

If you can't answer me this, then you should then realise the loophole I'm talking about.

Theoretically speaking, anyone can buy an item internationally, say they didn't get it as described, and get their money back no worries.

Also LOL at the people bagging our feedback. It's written by like 4 other of our employee's. Yeah so what, some have terrible grammar, but none of you even come near my feedback rating, so please, get on our level

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

*new2vintage — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:52:58 GMT

Any seller's feedback score is irrelevant. Responses to bad feedback reflect badly on you regardless of who writes it. It seems like it's harder for a seller to win an ebay dispute than it is to win a Paypal dispute.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

bsal6160 — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:05:05 GMT

You only have proof that a parcel weighing 700 grams was sent. And YES even international buyers can say they didnt get it as described and get a refund. If you refunded before the item was returned, then more fool you.

As you allow others to use your eBay account (you stated that others leave the feedback) then one would assume the same OTHER employees are sending the parcels. Are you sure they sent the two parts?

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

3415len — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:28:19 GMT

I packaged it myself. We refunded nothing, eBay on the other hand had other ideas.

"You only have proof that a parcel weighing 700 grams was sent."

Using that logic, I can buy a 2kg item consiting of 2 parts from the UK and say "Oh sorry, I only got one part, money back plz"

It's also funny we have to refund this guys post. We've done nothing wrong yet the frauder is laughing with his free half item at no cost, while we will be missing half our product, + essentially paid this guy's post for nothing.

Cool story bro.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

icollected — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:39:59 GMT

I can understand where your frustration is coming from, however, this is merely a part of running a business.

You can never weed out all the criminals. This is as much eBay's fault as it is your own- i.e. not very much either one of you. It is either the postman's fault or your buyer.

Considering that your feedback is over 10,000, I'm hoping that you've made enough profits to write product B off as a deduction to business costs.

As a toy seller, we get parents returning toys half broken with melted batteries and what-not; 10 months after the sale. We still take it back and refund them (yes, including their initial paid postage). Why? Because these people are few and far inbetween. They know full well usage damage is not covered by warranty. The time and effort it takes to deny a refund is more costly than to just do the refund and block the buyer.

If international sales are causing you loss on a regular basis, it may be wise to review your business strategy and not offer international sales. We've blocked all international sales on 95% of our products.

If you don't receive Part A back, then by all means say you didn't. I know that I would have to much integrity to sink down to a criminal's level and lie that I didn't receive it back when I did. It would make me no more morally righteous. Unlike that buyer, I value my soul a bit more than the cost of Part B; I'm sure.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

bsal6160 — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:07:15 GMT

Using that logic, I can buy a 2kg item consiting of 2 parts from the UK and say "Oh sorry, I only got one part, money back plz"

Your missing the point here. You only get a refund after the entire parcel is returned AS SENT, so if you dont get the 700 gram parcel then they don't get a refund. Where's the problem?

As for the return postage. IF the buyer is right and only half the items are inside then why should the buyer be out of pocket for your mistake?

As it stands the buyer has to pay for return postage, so again where's the problem?

Oh and its PayPal that the dispute should be processed through not eBay.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

jensmanchester-australia — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:23:24 GMT

Oh and its PayPal that the dispute should be processed through not eBay.

If a buyer is logged into the UK site at time of purchasing then the dispute is processed through eBay under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy.

For buyers logged into the AU site at time of purchase disputes are processed through Paypal under the Paypal Buyer Protection policy.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

bsal6160 — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:36:28 GMT

Well tnhat explains why the buyer had to go through eBay but still

You only get a refund after the entire parcel is returned AS SENT, so if you dont get the 700 gram parcel then they don't get a refund. Where's the problem?

As for the return postage. IF the buyer is right and only half the items are inside then why should the buyer be out of pocket for your mistake?

As it stands the buyer has to pay for return postage, so again where's the problem?

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

jensmanchester-australia — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:45:09 GMT

Well tnhat explains why the buyer had to go through eBay but still

You only get a refund after the entire parcel is returned AS SENT, so if you dont get the 700 gram parcel then they don't get a refund. Where's the problem?

As for the return postage. IF the buyer is right and only half the items are inside then why should the buyer be out of pocket for your mistake?

As it stands the buyer has to pay for return postage, so again where's the problem?

If the buyer has claimed SNAD as only one part arrived then they only have to send back what they claim to have received regardless of the weight of the parcel.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

wishuponastarcelebrationsandgifts — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:47:18 GMT

Well tnhat explains why the buyer had to go through eBay but still

You only get a refund after the entire parcel is returned AS SENT, so if you dont get the 700 gram parcel then they don't get a refund. Where's the problem?

As for the return postage. IF the buyer is right and only half the items are inside then why should the buyer be out of pocket for your mistake?

As it stands the buyer has to pay for return postage, so again where's the problem?

What is interesting is that the seller has documentation from AP stating that the parcel weighed 700 grams which is consistent with the weight of the 2 items.

The buyer claims they only received part A which weighs far less than 700 grams. If they only received part A, then what was the other object in the package to make up the extra weight? I would have thought they would have made mention of that.

The buyer can return part A + something else to make up the 700 grams, or just a brick for that matter weighing 700 grams. Just as a seller has no proof of ever posting what they claim to have posted to a buyer, nor do they have proof that the buyer returned the actual item that was posted to them.

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, it is impossible to avoid some degree of financial loss for transactions that do not proceed as you would expect. It is a risk you need to bear if selling on ebay.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

3415len — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:05:45 GMT

If you could read some of the emails and the story he contradicted himself in, you would understand that this guy has done this on purpose.

I packaged it myself, I remember ALL uncommon orders and make special note of international stuff for this very reason.

This guy also claimed he had to pay 55 pound in duty to receive his item.

The simple answer we have is that this guy received his tool, he used it for his job, and decides he wants to scam his money back because overall it was a very costly process just to get one tool.

There is no way he did not receive exactly as he purchased, as it's the most simple thing to pack and nearly impossible for a human with 2 functioning eyes to get wrong.

Hear me out. This guy ripped us off. Stop trying to argue for some guy you don't even know, just for the sake of arguing.

Re: Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

zeroninetyone091 — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:29:54 GMT

I understand exactly what you are saying and how frustrating it is when faced with this situation and with some of the unhelpful replies you have received.

For my part I think you have done every thing correctly and faced with the same situation I would have done the same.

The bottom line is you have been scammed and it appears the eBay will not do any thing to support you or close this loop hole.

I appreciate you sharing this experience with us and for my part will not be selling overseas.

😞