topic Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him in Selling

Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

classic_temptations — Fri, 16 May 2014 05:06:02 GMT

Hi Everyone,

Can anyone make any suggestions please regarding my sale.

I sold a small item (brand new) worth approximately $50.

The buyer contacted me asking when it would be delivered.

I contacted the courier and they said the customer had rang them and changed the delivery address but before they could deliver

to the new address someone turned up at the courier depot and collected it. They had the consignment card which was left

in my buyers mail box.

The courier company did not ask for ID - Im not sure if they are suppose to if a consignment card is shown

My buyer confirms she did not ring the courier and change the address or pick up the item.

The courier has checked their CCTV cameras and they have picture of the car etc but no number plate

Can anyone suggest please where i go from here, it is not about the money although it could have been a much more expensive item, I would like to get to the bottom of this but not sure what to do next.

Any suggestions would be great

My customer is waiting for a refund or her purchase.

Many Thanks in advance.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

davewil1964 — Fri, 16 May 2014 07:48:21 GMT

You have proof of delivery, so will win an INR dispute.

The onus is on the buyer to provide the correct address for delivery. If it changes halfway through a transaction (or more likely they forgot to change it) then they wear the costs.

it seems the new occupant's of the buyer's old address have received the card and collected the item.

I wouldn't refund a cent, but I would suggest to the buyer that THEY contact the people at their old house and see if they can work something out.

It is not your problem.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

digital*ghost — Fri, 16 May 2014 09:22:28 GMT

@classic_temptations wrote:

The courier has checked their CCTV cameras and they have picture of the car etc but no number plate

But they should have a record of the alternative address when someone called to arrange delivery to a new address.

If the buyer never arranged re-delivery of the package, then the only thing I can think of is that someone stole the consignment card, rang and tried to arrange delivery at different address, then decided to go in and pick it up instead... But personally, I would think the security of packages while in the care of the courier company is the courier company's problem, particularly if they don't request any form of ID for collection when they should be ensuring that the person is authorised to take delivery of the item (even Australia Post will confirm that you live at the delivery address before handing over a package, whether a signature etc is required or not).

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 16 May 2014 10:33:20 GMT

You should be covered by Paypal seller protection and so should the buyer, it is really up to the buyer, unfortunately, to open a dispute for item not received. What should happen is that you provide froof of delivery and then Paypal will find in your favour. the buyer will then have to dispute this over the phone and offer in evidence the information you have from the courier company. Paypal should then pay out the buyer from their own funds. If that doesn't happen then the buyer should politely inform them that if they don't receive a refund within 48 hours you will be reporting them to the FSO.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 May 2014 10:41:09 GMT

@phorum_junkie* wrote:
Paypal should then pay out the buyer from their own funds. If that doesn't happen then the buyer should politely inform them that if they don't receive a refund within 48 hours you will be reporting them to the FSO.

Why would Paypal make a discretionary payment to a buyer who has moved address - and let the transaction go through on their old details? FSO won't do anything about that.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 16 May 2014 10:49:42 GMT

I read it that the buyer did not change the address, that somebody took the card out of their letterbox and tried to rearrange delivery to a different address but then decided to go and collect the parcel in person.

I forgot to add that I would also go to the police and report the theft if I were the buyer and that wouls also be compelling evidence for Paypal.

If it is in the courier companies policies that id should be checked on collection then they should be paying back the seller IMO

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 May 2014 11:04:16 GMT

It is highly unlikely that Paypal would make a discretionary payment when the buyer no longer lives at that address, regardless of the scenarios that we might like to imaginate.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

jensmanchester-australia — Fri, 16 May 2014 11:10:24 GMT

The buyer never said they moved address - it wasn't the buyer who rang the courier company and changed address but the person who somehow got hold of the card.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 May 2014 11:35:17 GMT

My apologies I read the OP incorrectly.

If someone is stealing the buyers mail and fraudulently using their identity to pick up parcels I think its better handled by the police.

As the seller in this situation I would be demanding that the courier company compensate the buyer for the loss.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

davewil1964 — Fri, 16 May 2014 12:06:19 GMT

contacted the courier and they said the customer had rang them and changed the delivery address but before they could deliver

to the new address someone turned up at the courier depot and collected it. They had the consignment card which was left

in my buyers mail box.

This says to me that the buyer had actually changed address and tried to initiate the change post-sale, but that the courier had already attempted delivery to the address the buyer had provided.

But, yes, if this is not the case (and I'm not convinced) then the police is the logical next avenue.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

jensmanchester-australia — Fri, 16 May 2014 12:18:38 GMT

dave - this was followed by:-

My buyer confirms she did not ring the courier and change the address or pick up the item.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

digital*ghost — Fri, 16 May 2014 12:25:59 GMT

@davewil1964 wrote:
contacted the courier and they said the customer had rang them and changed the delivery address but before they could deliver
to the new address someone turned up at the courier depot and collected it. They had the consignment card which was left
in my buyers mail box.

This says to me that the buyer had actually changed address and tried to initiate the change post-sale, but that the courier had already attempted delivery to the address the buyer had provided.

But, yes, if this is not the case (and I'm not convinced) then the police is the logical next avenue.

That's what the courier said, but they may have no way of knowing if the person who called to change the address was the intended recipient at all. (in other words "we received a phone call from the recipient" could be more likely "we received a phone call from someone who knew the consignment number so we assumed it was the intended recipient and told you that's who it was").

For example, when a USPS package was addressed to my PO box and I had to change it to my street address, I called them, gave them the consignment number, then the new address and that was it. They did not ask for any more indentifying details at all - not even the original ship-to address. Some couriers you don't even need to call, you can just go to their website and do it there.

Now, if the courier had attempted delivery to the original address but no one was home, and they do what all couriers have done with me in the past (which is to leave a card with the consignment number written on it at the premises), then an opportunist likely has everything they need to make a 2 minute phonecall and redirect a package.

Hence, I say it's an issue with the courier company's practices and lack of security.

As an aside, (not addressing you, dave) I just want to reiterate PayPal's Buyer Protection policy which clearly states that a buyer is not eligible for protection if the seller has proof of shipping. The advice to threaten PayPal with the BFSO if PayPal uphold this term and get a discretionary refund rather conflicts with the whole thing about reading, understanding and - more importantly - agreeing to PayPal's T&C's.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

davewil1964 — Fri, 16 May 2014 12:38:13 GMT

I'm glad you weren't addressing me, d*g, as I didn't mention the FOS.

My point is that somebody with the consignment number rang the courier to get the item redirected. Presumably that would be either the buyer or the seller, as nobody else should be privy to it.

BUT, delivery had already been attempted by the courier to the contracted address. I presume the subsequent presentation of the card to the courier was by the resident of the contracted delivery address.

Therefore, the buyer is at fault, unless they still reside at the shipped to address. Which I don't believe is the case.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

jensmanchester-australia — Fri, 16 May 2014 13:05:01 GMT

Australia Post have a constant battle with attempted fraud when delivery cards have been stolen from letterboxes and the thief attempts to collect the parcel from the Post Office. They will also steal identifying information from letterboxes to try and provide evidence that they are the rightful owner of the parcel.

My local Post Office was only telling me recently that there was a gang operating again in an area of Perth and all the Post Offices had been forewarned.

Just because a card was left it doesn't necessarily mean that the resident of the delivery address was the person who went and collected the parcel.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

davewil1964 — Fri, 16 May 2014 13:10:00 GMT

BUT it was a courier not AP.

Somebody tried to get the delivery address changed post-post.

Surely a thief would just present the stolen card, not try to get the delivery address changed when they knew delivery had already been attempted?

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

jensmanchester-australia — Fri, 16 May 2014 13:16:46 GMT

Thieves don't always think rationally - if they rang to get the delivery address changed then why did they bother to go and collect it.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

davewil1964 — Fri, 16 May 2014 13:26:05 GMT

Exactly my point. They wouldn't.

I reckon the buyer moved and didn't bother changing their address until too late. I know for a fact that this happens.

And i am sure you have also experienced it.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

digital*ghost — Fri, 16 May 2014 17:43:18 GMT

@davewil1964 wrote:

My point is that somebody with the consignment number rang the courier to get the item redirected. Presumably that would be either the buyer or the seller, as nobody else should be privy to it.

No, as I mentioned, a delivery was obviously attempted at the original address, so the call to redirect the package would have been made after the delivery attempt, and the cards generally have the consignment number written on them, so anyone who sees / takes possession of the card would be privy to it.

The buyer forgetting to update their address is plausable (one way to try and find out is to see if they'd be happy for a replacement to be delivered to the original address), but so is a thief stealing the consignment card and collecting the package (redirects can take a few days to process, mine with UPS took nearly a week, so maybe they got worried they'd miss their shot at stealing the item if someone followed up on the tracking).

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

springyzone — Sat, 17 May 2014 01:00:24 GMT

I would love to know what the buyer says-if they have changed addresses or not.

The card was obviously left in the letterbox of the address as supplied to ebay/paypal.

The logical people who would receive the card are those who are living at that address.

I can understand a thief taking a card and attempting pick up, lots of thieves are quite brazen.

But a thief actually ringing up and arranging to change the address to their own? That would be stupidity as surely anyone trying to follow up on a lost parcel would have Austpost (or the courier company) telling them the delivery address. A thief would be too easily traced that way.

If the buyer has not changed address, then are they renting with others, as someone there may have taken the card.

Any time I pick up a parcel from the post office, using a card, I have to show ID first. I would expect a courier company to do the same.

If the seller has proof of posting and tracking, they should not be liable for it.

Re: Parcel Picked Up But Buyer Said it Was Not Him

sparrow2207 — Mon, 19 May 2014 02:41:35 GMT

Why don't you contact the courier company and request the addtress that the person phoned ans asked for the parcel to be redirected to.

As you were the sender I don't think they can acrually refuse to provide it to you.

You could then contact the police yourself - ultimately someone is guilty of fraud.