topic Re: FVF on postage in Selling

FVF on postage

porcelainforyou2 — Wed, 21 May 2014 02:57:55 GMT

For people posting comments "agreeing with" eBay's decision to charge FVF on postage (probably a vanishingly small proportion of eBay sellers, and I am very suspicious that such postings have been made by eBay employees), please consider the following:

For sellers who sell bulk items of 'fixed' value for which postage is 'fixed' (e.g. items < 500g posted within Australia which cost $7.20 to any postcode) - e,g. C.D.'s or jewelry, it is easy to incorporate the FVF on postage (approx. 0.72c) into the item purchase price. For items > 500g it is impossible to incorporate the postage FVF into the auction starting price or fixed price. For example, I recently sold some plates to an international buyer in South Africa. The plates cost $9.99, and international postage was approx. $84. Are you seriously suggsesting that I routinely add $8.40 to the item starting price, when domestic postage on the item would only be $12 - $15, just in case an overseas buyer purchases the item?? I have now removed international shipping from my eBay sites, and restricted sales to domestic buyers only. I am currently "wearing" the FVF on domestic postage, as I cannot incorporate it into the starting/fixed price, bbecause it varies so widely depending upon the buyer's postcode. Postage of a parcel to a buyer in W.A. (where I am) is significantly lower than to the Eastern states or to Tasmania, so I would need to add on 10% of "worst case scenario postage" (e.g. postage to outback/remote QLD) to the auction starting or fixed price, which would kill off sales to W.A. buyers, particularly those who want local pick up.

Re: FVF on postage

bigbrickshop — Wed, 21 May 2014 03:01:48 GMT

Totally agree with you.

The simple solution would be for eBay to add an extra % field in the Calculated Postage section.

And for International Post change the policy to be the same as the US where the Postage on FVFs is charged at the domestic rate in the listing.

Re: FVF on postage

digital*ghost — Wed, 21 May 2014 03:23:24 GMT

This is the biggest problem I have with FVF on postage, despite the fact that almost all my items go as letters, so compared to many others I have been relatively unscathed by the change... It's impossible to add a wildly variable cost to an item price or handling charge, not to mention against eBay policy to include business costs in P&H charge, plus it would often result with buyers getting a bad impression if P&H seems inflated (a low star for P&H costs won't count as a defect when that system comes in, but people have negged for a few $'s difference in stamp price, and that is a defect). What it boils down to is how can someone successfully run a business when they have no real idea what their costs are going to be? Sure, we have a percentage, but as pointed out, many sellers won't know on what amount that percentage is going to be charged until after a buyer purchases and pays - bad business practice all-round.

Agree that there needs to be some uniformity and stability for sellers that have variable P&H costs, which is anyone who offers more than one service (unless they're all provided for "free"). FVF on the lowest domestic P&H charge (which would work for all those using calculated or rate tables) seems like the most logical solution to me. 😄

Re: FVF on postage

porcelainforyou2 — Wed, 21 May 2014 03:35:32 GMT

Wonderful comment!

Yes, I had considered the option of eBay adding a "seller charge" which can be entered as a % (percentage) of the calculated actual postage, rather than an absolute $ value, which is of course impossible to do at the time of listing, as the seller does not know whether the item will be bought by a buyer in the same state or in the remote outback of a state on the other side of the Nullarbor....

Re: FVF on postage

asporty — Wed, 21 May 2014 03:38:16 GMT

@porcelainforyou2 wrote:
For people posting comments "agreeing with" eBay's decision to charge FVF on postage (probably a vanishingly small proportion of eBay sellers, and I am very suspicious that such postings have been made by eBay employees), please consider the following:
_______________________________________________________________________________________

I had the same uneasy feeling about people who supported ebay in my previous posting. A look at their postings indicated that a few at least looked genuine and not "plants". There may be plants though; ebay has enough money to throw around!!

Those few that support ebay mostly sell low value items targeting domestic market only. So at the most, they pay ebay only 70c extra. Not like us who target worldwide market.

Ebay has basically killed our export business and killed the golden goose. I am now adding $6-7 extra on top of the already very high international shipping prices to cover postage and my packaging expenses. Don't know if anyone is going to buy.

Re: FVF on postage

porcelainforyou2 — Wed, 21 May 2014 03:41:02 GMT

Yes, I agree. A FVF on postage charged on the lowest domestic postage would be logical, from a seller's point of view, as somebody pointed out apparently happens in the USA.

However, I suspect that apart from a blatant "money grab" by eBay, the other reason for introducing the FVF on postage was to counter the few unscrupulous sellers who list an item for 99 cents (when it is clearly worth much more than that), with a flat rate postage cost of $99, to minimise FVF. Charging FVF on lowest domestic postage may defer a few of those unscrupulous sellers, but one suspects that they would just increase their 'flat rate' postage from $99 to, say $105, to compensate...

Re: FVF on postage

digital*ghost — Wed, 21 May 2014 04:10:33 GMT

@porcelainforyou2 wrote:

However, I suspect that apart from a blatant "money grab" by eBay, the other reason for introducing the FVF on postage was to counter the few unscrupulous sellers who list an item for 99 cents (when it is clearly worth much more than that), with a flat rate postage cost of $99, to minimise FVF. Charging FVF on lowest domestic postage may defer a few of those unscrupulous sellers, but one suspects that they would just increase their 'flat rate' postage from $99 to, say $105, to compensate...

I suspect that's a convenient "excuse" (from eBay, I mean). There would have been a lot of ways eBay could have handled that problem, only one meant they didn't have to actually do anything except collect more money, and unsurprisingly, that's the one they chose.

That reasoning is also undermined by the fact that a low DSR for postage costs won't affect a seller's defect rate. On the US site, they explained that they are no longer letting the low DSR for P&H affect sellers because (and I'm paraphrasing here) buyers don't ultimately care about P&H costs - I know there are some out there that are very finicky about it, but eBay is basically saying they don't care, and buyers still buy even if they sometimes feel gypped on P&H.

Re: FVF on postage

misterforgetfulsbooks — Wed, 21 May 2014 07:11:50 GMT

Totally forgot to add the $13.20 FVF on to the $120 post to Canada I quoted doh!

Re: FVF on postage

porcelainforyou2 — Wed, 21 May 2014 07:14:40 GMT

I suspect that eBay will not alter the "seller charge" field when sending an invoice to allow a % (percntage) additional seller charge. The reason is that buyers will then ask what the extra seller charge is for, and will learn about eBay's usurious FVF on Astralia Post's postage. At the moment the vast majority of buyers (as opposed to sellers) are completely ignorant about the newly introduced profit margin that eBay is levying via the FVF on postage.I suspect that eBay would prefer them to remain in the dark.

Re: FVF on postage

davewil1964 — Wed, 21 May 2014 08:07:07 GMT

@misterforgetfulsbooks wrote:
Totally forgot to add the $13.20 FVF on to the $120 post to Canada I quoted doh!

Should have been $11.88 anyway. 9.9%

Re: FVF on postage

china2u4u — Wed, 21 May 2014 09:55:53 GMT

Couldn't agree more!

Re: FVF on postage

china2u4u — Wed, 21 May 2014 09:58:38 GMT

Yes, I made the same mistake, and unfortunately the FVF on the international postage was more than the sale price of the item, so I made a loss on the sale. And that is not even taking into account the listinf fee, the FVF on the sale price nor the PayPal fees...

Re: FVF on postage

davewil1964 — Wed, 21 May 2014 10:11:31 GMT

Set your prices so you make a profit, easy. if FVF on postage makes a loss BEFORE any other fees, then you obviously need to look at what you're selling. Or at least what you are selling for.

Re: FVF on postage

china2u4u — Wed, 21 May 2014 10:32:31 GMT

So you are seriously suggesting that the for the plates which sold for $9.99 and which Australia Post charged $84 to post to South Africa (heavy dinner plates), I should have added $8 to the starting price, just in case an overseas buyer bought them!! One suspects that this higher auction starting price might have prevented any local buyers wanting free local pick up from bidding in the first place. Or potential bidders from the same state as the seller, for that matter.

The solution is for eBay to instal a % (percentage) function to the "seller charge" field when issuing an invoice and/or to the P & H field in the listing, rather than requiring an absolute $ amount. I would be perfectly happy with that solution.

Re: FVF on postage

davewil1964 — Wed, 21 May 2014 10:42:30 GMT

i would suggest that if you are selling items for $10 you only sell domestically.

Or, when you give an overseas buyer a postage quote you include the extra $8.

Or BIN. Auctions don't really work these days.

Re: FVF on postage

china2u4u — Thu, 22 May 2014 00:31:24 GMT

I agree. (see below)

eBay has killed 'dead in the water' international sales. If the eBayer (colic2bullsgirlore) who posted the excellent research under the topic "FREE postage on multiples" would like to apply his research skills to determining the number of sellers now (since May 15th) offering international shipping as opposed to Australia-only sales, I would be very interested!

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porcelainforyou2 wrote:

__________________________________________________

_____________________________________

I had the same uneasy feeling about people who supported ebay in my previous posting. A look at their postings indicated that a few at least looked genuine and not "plants". There may be plants though; ebay has enough money to throw around!!

Those few that support ebay mostly sell low value items targeting domestic market only. So at the most, they pay ebay only 70c extra. Not like us who target worldwide market.

Ebay has basically killed our export business and killed the golden goose. I am now adding $6-7 extra on top of the already very high international shipping prices to cover postage and my packaging expenses. Don't know if anyone is going to buy.

Re: FVF on postage

china2u4u — Thu, 22 May 2014 00:38:28 GMT

Your mathematics are incorrect, and the mathematics of the eBayer who made the original posting are correct. Just think about it.

If the seller had added only $11.88 to the $120 postage cost, as you suggested, then eBay will charge 9.9% on the added $11.88 as well as on the original $120 - i.e. eBay will cahrge the 9.9% on the total postage charged ($131.88), which is $13.06.

Please revise your basic arithmetic skills, Jim Croce!

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@misterforgetfulsbooks wrote:
Totally forgot to add the $13.20 FVF on to the $120 post to Canada I quoted doh!

Should have been $11.88 anyway. 9.9%

------ If you're going my way, I'll go with you - Jim Croce ------

Re: FVF on postage

china2u4u — Thu, 22 May 2014 00:46:52 GMT

As of May 16th, I am selling only to Australian buyers.

I acknowledge that eBay's FVF on postage was only the 'final nail in the coffin' of international sales, which had already been greatly reduced by Australia Post's exponentially increasing postage charges and the strong Australian dollar.

Re your comment about auctions 'not really working nowadays' - for the items which you sell, as for the Chinese sellers of mass produced items of 'known' value, fixed price listings may be fine. But for sellers of collectable second hand goods of very variable / unknown value, auctions are still good. The market then decides what the item is worth.

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i would suggest that if you are selling items for $10 you only sell domestically.

Or, when you give an overseas buyer a postage quote you include the extra $8.

Or BIN. Auctions don't really work these days.

Re: FVF on postage

misterforgetfulsbooks — Thu, 22 May 2014 01:30:53 GMT

I think you're mistaken with your calculation Davewil

yes 9.9% of $120 postage to Canada works out at an $11.88 ebay fee on postage.

Now if I had charged my customer $131.88 postage, the ebay fee would have been $13.05

So to not leave myself short, I would have to charge my customer $133.20 postage so as to cover the ebay fee on postage being $13.18 leaving me with $120.02 to pay the postage.

Like mentioned earlier, ebay need to have the % postage added on to cover their fee or give us new chart to show us what we should charge for postage to cover the new fee ie: charge $14.90 for a 1kg satchel so as to account for the $1.47 ebay postage bringing the cost to the seller back to the price they pay at the PO - $13.40 etc...

Re: FVF on postage

porcelainforyou2 — Thu, 22 May 2014 04:45:05 GMT

I am glad that your mathematics agreed with mine. Davewil has obviously never had to fill in a B.A.S. (business activities statement) for the A.T.O., where although the G.S.T. rate is 10%, to claim an input GST credit back, one has to divide the total ampunt paid for the 'input' (incl. GST) by 11, NOT by 10...