topic Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer in Selling

Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 00:57:09 GMT

We sent out two separate packages to the same buyer 3-days apart about 3-weeks ago. This buyer has a FB score = 453. And is not a seller either.

We get a message yesterday that says she has not received her item. Where is it?

She would probably not know that we sent them separately. But as the orders were a couple of days apart we had already placed the first one into the mail before we received the 2nd order. We mostly use regular mail so no tracking available.

I have taken a look at her FB history and in the past 12-months there are no less than 4x BIG RED dots given to various sellers for items not received. Most of these have seller comments saying refund given. There are also lots of red dots given for other reasons as well.

There are also many NEUTRALS for all kinds of nitpicky reasons with some of those sellers commenting that they have also given a refund.

I have sent her a message asking for validation of the address we used but have heard nothing back yet. And to check that they are not being held at her local PO.

I have not as yet disclosed that these packages were sent separately.

But it seems remotley unlikely that two would get lost to the same address just days apart. Makes it smell like a scam buyer to me.

It does seem we will be heading for a red dot here given her track record.

How woud other sellers handle a buyer like this?

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

pennyforum14 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 01:11:40 GMT

Were they parcels or letters?

If parcels, check the tracking and if it shows delivered, point that out to her and advise her to enquire at her PO as to how the item can be marked deivered when she hasn't received it. If she is not genuine, that will probably be the last you hear. If they were letters, there is not a lot you can do but refund, as there is no way to prove delivery. That's the drawback of using letter post to save your customers money, while most appreciate it, there are some who will take advantage of it.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

beautbots01 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 01:43:30 GMT

Anyway to id this buyer. I have heard of some sellers contacting the PO in the area where all these parcels were allegedly going astray and alerting the staff to these claims as well as contacting AP and letting them know they are being blamed for all these lost items. There needs to be a way to outsmart scammers if indeed this is what they are. Such informing the buyer that due to the large number of lost items they have had you have done just that and that their claim/s are being investigated by AP.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

i-love-my-sheep — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 02:11:10 GMT

Hopefully Digital*Ghost will see this as they have a really great message that they send to people like this. Miraculously, letters often turn up not long after. DO NOT refund until DG replies (which I'm sure they will).

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 02:37:48 GMT

These are not parcels with tracking. Our items average about $10 each so to do that would kill us off.

So we have to use large letter unless a buyer orders a larger quantity. So no tracking in this case unfortunately.

Normally we accept lost items as a loss and just replace them after verifying a correct address.

You can tell by the FB history and the abrupt, blunt and rude nature of the messages when a buyer is scamming. They seem to think angry messages will simply make you cave in and refund or replace.

Unfortunately even tho the evidence is pretty clear ebay & paypal will do nothing about it so they get away with it and just try it on time & time again. There needs to be some reporting mechanism in place with teeth to deal with this. B&M stores have security tied in with police.

We are inclined to refuse to refund or replace on this one because of the history and for sure we will then cop the NEG.

But somehow they have to see that they cannot get away with what amounts to shoplifting.

Our loss rate is probably 1 in about 500, so not too bad I guess.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

digital*ghost — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 02:52:45 GMT

@ilovemychooks wrote:
Hopefully Digital*Ghost will see this as they have a really great message that they send to people like this. Miraculously, letters often turn up not long after. DO NOT refund until DG replies (which I'm sure they will).

If it does help, this is a sample of the kind of message I send, once I have confirmed their delivery address, and as well as being true, I feel it's non-accusatory, but does seem to help some buyers locate missing packages rather quickly. The most important thing is to follow up on the investigation, AP do keep track of consistent non-delivery claims, and they don't take kindly to fraud.

I will lodge a missing article investigation with Australia Post on XX-XX, which I need to inform you of as I will have to pass all of the addressee details on to Australia Post so they they can conduct the investigation, and it is possible they will contact you to request further information. They will attempt locate the package using their internal records, which will also help determine any problem areas or consistent factors that might be causing delivery issues and hopefully prevent such problems from reoccurring. Thank you in advance for your assisstance in this matter.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 05:48:34 GMT

Hi DG, Thanks.

I use words something along those lines too.

And its quite amazing how soon after a missing mail item does mysteriously show up or there is no further response on the matter.

After we sent these words to a very similar buyer just a few weeks back she then wrote back a nasty-gram rejecting our offer of either refund or item replacement. Saying "...keep ya stinking money and ya rotten items".

Then a few days after that she left us a NEG.

I just replied to the NEG FB with something like this:

"You claimed INR. We advised our reporting process. You rejected our offer to refund."

Never heard any more.

Has anyone ever tried filing a report with the online fraud squad in Brisbane?

If so, what happened?

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

twyngwyn — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 06:08:24 GMT

Oh No...was the buyer in Qld?

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

wendy9456 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 07:27:16 GMT

Hi Any hints on the i.d Sounds like one for the "wall". Sorry that you have had to deal with such an unpleasant buyer. Know what it is like.Good luck with future sales

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 07:41:56 GMT

Yes... in Warwick actually.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 07:21:28 GMT

Well...

After sending out our "standard message" we've heard nothing back for a week now.

Hmmm! Items must have mysteriously shown up, maybe.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

*amandajane* — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:01:01 GMT

Sorry to say it looks like you got the negative FB that you feared from this con buyer. Looking from the outside its also curious how as a seller all your items and fb associated with your sales are vieweable but the buyer who left the neg cant be viewed to see here FB Left for Others. Its a case of ebay taking the view that the buyer is always right regardless of the sellers complaints to the contrary and that you have "no rights" whereas in law if the same were to happen in a shop (eg a shoplifter) the rights are completely the other way around!! Its a tough thing selling on ebay and I fear getting tougher day by day as they recrank rules and requirements of sellers but do nothing about Buyers with obvious and perisistent issues

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

foxette-in-sox — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:05:33 GMT

She looks to have been doing this since 2012

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:23:31 GMT

She ended up raising 2 cases of INR against us even tho the two items were mailed out 3-days apart.

How likely is it that 2 regular mail envelopes mailed 2-days apart to the same address could both not arrive. hmmm!!

And she did at least validate that we used the correct address.

I spoke with PayPal and they agreed with me that the buyer's track history looked suspect (he could see more than me on her record but would not divulge what it was) and they ruled the case closed "No-FAULT". This means that the buyer still gets their refund but we don't lose our money either. He wanted to rule in our favour 100% but could not because the items were mailed out by regular mail, with no tracking.

Also spoke with ebay about removing the NEGs since we were given no-fault by paypal. But so far they have not been receptive to the idea. Have to try another CSR again today. Will keep trying to have them removed as I believe they are grossly unfair.

So the scamming Buyer has gotten away with it. But according to the paypal CSR she is coming close to having her account closed down. So there must be serious history there.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

thecatspjs — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 00:22:10 GMT

Did you request missing post articles investigation with AP clarry ?

If you did this, and the buyer was in the habit of claiming item not received, then this would at least be recorded on AP systems and serve as a red flag for future missing post problems.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:49:34 GMT

Update...

Yes we raised a missing article report with Aust Post.

They just came back saying they had checked all the usual places and had not been able to locate either package.

Even tho I highlighted that this buyer strongly appeared to be scamming they said it is not within their scope to do this kind of investigation. That that is for the police to look into. All they would do is "look for" the missing items.

Of course they could not find them because we believe the buyer actually received them. So no joy there at all.

I have now downloaded the 10-page suspected fraud report from the Federal Police site. Have yet to complete this paperwork.

I have had two phone calls now with ebay about removal of the double NEG feedback. This morning once again and the CSR still refused to remove the two NEGs simply becuase we could not provide tracking information. Didn't matter that it was pretty clear that two items were reported missing when mailed to a buyer validated address 3-days apart was extremely unlikely with or without tracking.

She simply said you cannot prove delivery. I said even with a tracking number you still cannot prove delivery just that you have lodged the item.

So I asked to speak with her supervisor. After some wrangling on the phone about the whole story once again the supervisor eventually agreed that they would take down the two NEGs. Also after looking at the history of both the buyer and us they also suggested that some action would be taken against the buyer's account in this case for some breach of policy. They would not say what the breach was, but seems there is something on this buyer's account that we cannot see.

As of this moment the two NEGs are still visible but they assure me they will be removed. Selling on this account has been abysmal since these NEGs were left, so it clearly has some impact on visibility of listings. And why do they do that. If we are not selling they are not making money either. Does not make any sense.

So it seems a bit of persistence has gotten us the result we wanted. But it was like pulling teeth with ebay. PayPal were very easy going about the case and immediately ruled case closed NO FAULT. And said from what they could see this buyer was actually very close to having their PayPal account closed down. So again they could see more than we could.

I don't undertand why decent sellers like us are so harshly treated by ebay. Good sellers are their bread 'n' butter no matter how big or small.

In cases like this all the evidence is very clear against the buyer. It is this kind of treatment that leaves a very sour taste in our mouths and at the first real viable selling option outside of ebay we will leave here. We are looking and actually doing final pre-launch testing of our own website today.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 02:08:21 GMT

looks like your negs are gone mate

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

clarry100 — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 02:12:53 GMT

Yes I just noticed they have been removed now.

Yay! Justice prevails.

Re: Clearly Another Scam Buyer

amxsuperstores — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 05:21:05 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
Yes I just noticed they have been removed now.
Yay! Justice prevails.

Any hints as to the possible username of said pest?