topic Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible in Selling

Breakages during post- who is responsible

luxandco — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:49:47 GMT

I've recently come across some nasty buyers when it comes to breakages. I pack items very well, I always have a fragile sticker on packages etc. it seems like a buyer can lie and say something isn't as described, that it wasn't packed properly...file a claim and get their money back! Extremely frustrating that because out of fear of negative feedback we sellers have to give in and lose money in the process. Even after offering the buyer the option of insurance and clearly stating I'm not responsible for breakages in the post....I'm still on the losing end
Any advice from sellers please in best way to protect myself from bully buyers?

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

craig23040 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:01:56 GMT

You could probably change your attitude out the gate. Calling your customers names, eg. Bully buyers, simply becuase they bought an item off you that arrived damaged is going nowhere.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

*sparklz* — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:02:30 GMT

It is up to the seller to ensure that breakable items are packed well enough not to get broken so the answer is

The seller is responsible.

Aust Post DO NOT offer a fragile service and no amount of stickers will make handling any different.

Even with insurance all AP has to say is the item was not packed sufficiently and no claim could be made anyway.

Ask for photos of the damage and if they supply them then refund.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

harley_babes_hoard — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:15:14 GMT

Firstly stop putting fragile stickers on your packages. It is like waving a red flag to a bull. Some PO workers will play football with those items.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

i-love-my-sheep — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:22:58 GMT

For a start, stop putting 'fragile' on your parcels. It's an invitation for them to be used as a football..........and don't believe it doesn't happen.

I have posted quite a few breakables in the past (glass) and never had a breakage. One thing I learned from speaking to others that post breakables, it shouldn't be able to move in the box. Pack it in, hold the top closed and shake it. If there is even the tiniest bit of movement, stuff some more packaging in.

I have received broken breakables before. One seller, I don't know what she was thinking. Wrapped each plate in a single sheet of newspaper and put them in a satchel bag. Another seller did use good packaging, but not in the right way. They wrapped the item in a small amount of bubble wrap, placed it in the box, then filled it tight with packing material. Problem was, the item was sitting on the bottom of the box. All the packaging was on the sides and the top. I will put a layer in the bottom, place the item in a box large enough to fit material around the sides and then stuff it tight. So the item is basically in the middle of the box, completely surrounded by packing material.

In the case of your pineapple cannisters, I would pack them into individual boxes and then put them in a large box so there is no chance of them bashing together. I would also stuff the insides of them. Same with your Italian vase. They do ship much better if the inside is stuffed solid too. Buyers would much rather have a packaging mountain on the table than broken bits of whatever they bought.

As already mentioned, ask for a photo and if it is broken, refund. Is that the buyer who left you the last negative? If so, and they refuse to send a photo, tell them where to go.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

luxandco — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:23:24 GMT

I have heard this from people who have worked as couriers, however the reason I started using the fragile stickers was I was accused by a buyer of not doing enough...ie- I lost my case as I didn't make it known it was fragile. Damned if you do and damned if you dont

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

luxandco — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:32:06 GMT

Telling them where to go us not an option when you're trying to save your feedback.
Thanks for the tips around packing....the other issue is that buyers want top packing materials but gawk at the price of postage charged as if your trying to make extra money.

Do you people find auspost cheapest and best way to go or should I be making a deal with a courier for all parcels sent?

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

luxandco — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:35:30 GMT

Overall most of my buyers have been descent and lovely....my comment stems from 2 buyers who were really nasty no matter what I tried to resolve the situation...... It's not attitude...it's fact! There are buyers who know how to scam the eBay and PayPal systems...pure and simple!

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

harley_babes_hoard — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:40:28 GMT

Australia post don't have a fragile service so it means nothing to them. I double box my glassware and never had a problem. Wrap items with bubble wrap, box. then place in a bigger box then stuff foam peanuts in the gaps between the 2 boxes.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

ms_aussie — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:47:52 GMT

I used to sell a lot of glassware on eBay both within Australia and overseas and never had anything arrive broken. I used to buy foam 'peanuts' that's usually what they call them in the packing material trade. They are great and with some paper wads to steady the item plus some bubble wrap provide a much lighter means of secure packing and postage costs are kept at a reasonable level. As it has already been said it is essential to keep the item from moving around in the box and to put packing above and below the item. Unfortunately AP does like playing football with our parcels 😞

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

thecatspjs — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:50:25 GMT

I always put fragile sticker on double boxed fragile goods. Not had a loss yet.

I don't believe the board furphy that AP staff go to exta effort to mishandle goods.

OP the responsibility is AP's if goods were packaged in accordance with APs advice and the package shows signs of mishandling or other damage caused by AP (water damage for example).

If not APs mishandling, if goods were not packaged appropriately then it usually is the sellers responsibility.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 16:52:39 GMT

.my comment stems from 2 buyers who were really nasty no matter what I tried to resolve the situation.

There is only one thing you should do, ask for a photo of the broken item and once you see it you refund in full. Anything else and of course the buyer is going to turn nasty.

Your items need to be packaged well enough so they can be dropped from shoulder height onto a hard surface and they also need to withstand packages of up to 20kg being dropped on top of them.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

chezzy — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:40:49 GMT

Regardless of whether packages do get treated like footballs or not, I always double-box fragile items.

There is always a chance for packages to be accidently dropped or have heavy things placed on top of them.

I also take atleast a couple of 'progress' photos while I am packing the parcel so I have my own record

of how I packed the item and the type of packaging used (in case of any dispute) and then a last shot

of the sealed package complete with address label etc.

In the case of lodging an enquiry/claim through Australia Post I am pretty sure you would have to present

the package with its original packaging. In case a scammer conveniently got rid of some of the packaging

atleast my photos might show otherwise?

As for the 'option' of offering the buyer insurance, perhaps don't make it optional. If it is not a cheaper item

that can easily be replaced perhaps just cover the insurance fee yourself. Do it for YOU.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

casbit33 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 22:32:33 GMT

I had an item arrive broken, even though it was wrapped very well. I took it and all the wrapping to the post office to see what they would do. They said insurance is only paid if an Australia post worker wraps it for you. Also putting fragile stickers on your parcels is a waste of time because they ignore them. Australia Post have a lot to answer for in my opinion.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

5kazam — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 23:51:29 GMT

Not one item that I post leaves here without FRAGILE stickers. Whilst AP do not offer a fragile service, it is a buyer expectation that the box their fragile item(s) is/are in is appropriately marked.

Like Catspj's - I haven't had anything broken by AP, and particularly so since I started using the FRAGILE stickers.

Just for info - I used shredded paper as packing, and stuff the main box so that there is no movement at all. You can get a cheap shredder at AP and I would think Officeworks as well.

Also (as mentioned above) take 'stage' photos right through to the finished box. If the box contains several items, or is very expensive, I email the photos through to the buyer pre-postage, so that the buyer can clearly see that I have taken every care possible with their items. Plus it is good evidence for AP should the unthinkable happen.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

letscleanupmycupboards — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 03:32:27 GMT

I pack everything like it was glass. Because I use recycled packaging which costs me nothing I can afford to go overboard without any additional cost to buyers. I've posted fragile glass vials to the USA and Europe without a single breakage. Plus I don't give buyers an option to pay extra for insurance - if the item is valued over $50 or I expect it will sell for more than that, I factor insurance and signature into the postage. Now you can insure up to $300 without needing a signature so either way its covered. Insurance doesn't just cover damage, if the package goes missing then you lose it all with paypal so insurance is a must have.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

millj40 — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 04:21:39 GMT

Personally I have come to believe fragile stickers are like a red flag for bored postal workers to have some fun.

The best packing tip I can give is to ensure the item can not move at all within the package and use a very stiff cardboard box, filled with whatever packaging material you have. It is virtually impossible to break anything when it is packed that way.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

thecatspjs — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:29:06 GMT

Agree very much with packaging recommendations made.

But TBH I think comments about using fragile stickers are not true across the board.

As much as AP are nearly on the bottom of my Christmas card list (eBay being at rock bottom) I still think there are more hardworking and diligent AP post handling staff and posties, than AP associated staff or contractor rogues that mishandle parcels just because they are marked with fragile stickers or tapes.

IMO its kinda like making a negative comment and accusation and applying it to ALL eBay sellers, just because you might have encountered one or two shonky sellers.

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

i-love-my-sheep — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:50:47 GMT

In my experience, couriers are more guilty of it than AP. I've known a few people that worked for different courier companies who said it was common practice.

I watched a local courier drop kick a parcel into the back of their van one morning when I was at work. The item was a delicate piece of medical equipment. I rang the company and they were promptly sacked (as I found out from a friend who worked there).

Re: Breakages during post- who is responsible

thecatspjs — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:18:29 GMT

So chooks are you saying that I or other sellers of breakable goods should apply that experience more broadly ?

i just don't have that experience. Nothing I have purchased or nothing I have sent, has arrived broken (that I know about out)

I have had my fair share of lost or misdelivered items, as a sender and an address. For example, at one point I experienced lazy couriers that don't get out of their vans to deliver and just take parcel to PO with or without carding, but I also respect that others have not had this problem

I can honestly say every time I have had delivery problems, each and every time, I have rung and lodged a complaint or dispute with AP.

Do you do that ?