topic Re: Is there postal tracking for letters? in Selling

Is there postal tracking for letters?

casbit33 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:26:51 GMT

With the new Money back guarantee policy thats coming in, i have concerns. If someone buys an item, then receives it, then decides to pull a swifty to get their money back. they just say it didn't arrive. It is then in the sellers hands to prove that 1 - they posted it and 2- the buyer received it.

Now while this is going on sellers will get a deficit, they will also have their paypal accounts frozen. The problem i have with this is that i sell a lot of things that get posted as large letters. While i get tracking on parcels to prove postage and delivery, this option does not apply to letters, as far as i know. How am i to prove that i have posted the letter and even more impossible to prove, that the buyer has received it.?

maybe i will have to put all my prices up and box my little letter items so they can all go as parcels with tracking.

Any other ideas please

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

harley_babes_hoard — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:33:21 GMT

There a quite a few of us that have the same concerns. Really the only option is registered post labels. If bought in bulk they cost $3.10 now I think (they just went up)

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

casbit33 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:35:42 GMT

Thanks so much - registered post it is. Looks like i have some prices to change.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

cq_tech — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:43:05 GMT

I think it was Clarry who posted only yesterday that he'd been speaking with a Paypal rep and he was told that a photograph of the addressed large letter with the stamp cancelled by the PO would be acceptable as proof of postage for defending an INR claim.

If this is true, it means having the postage stamp cancelled by the PO then taking a photograph of it before it is dropped in the bag for subsequent delivery to the distribution centre. I wouldn't take this as gospel though, and would suggest you ring Paypal and ask them yourself.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

howie696 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:48:17 GMT

It would be a pain being stuck in the PO queue while someone photographed a load of letters 😞

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

mbselections00 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:54:55 GMT

You are correct Harley, as of yesterday $3.10 each if bought in Bulk, otherwise $3.70 each and don't forget casbit, you need to add postage for the Large Letter as well (bit of a pain because all the Buyer sees is the PO label that says - $0.70, $1.40 or whatever, so they think you have ripped them off. Many do not seem to realize it is Postage plus Registered Label

I revised almost all my listings over the weekend to reflect the increase, and don't forget to add on somewhere Ebays fvf as well

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

i-love-my-sheep — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:53:14 GMT

I think if it was only one or two it would be OK, but I dropped 8 large letters in the box today! That's unusual for me though, usually I post one or 2. Thankfully, my little PO rarely has a line, so I could probably get away with it, but at larger, busier ones it could be an issue.

I guess one solution would be to get them to stamp them, then move aside while you photograph them, allowing the next person to be served.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

imastawka — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:54:03 GMT

Your Paypal account does not get frozen.

Only the amount for the disputed item

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

wilk1149 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:59:37 GMT

Aren't the next lot of requirements demanding proof of delivery. Thus only a fully tracked service fulfil this.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

mbselections00 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 09:18:01 GMT

I have posted this solution previously, so forgive me for repeating it if you've all seen it before.

Totally agree i-love-my-sheep that get them to stamp them, then move aside while you photograph them, allowing the next person to be served is a good idea.

I was having major dramas with large letters going missing some time back & so reported it to Aust. Post and spoke to PayPal, also determined, they were going missing from the red street box !

While PayPal have told me this way of covering yourself as a Seller is totally acceptable, on ocassions when I have posted on the boards, others say it is not acceptable as it does not prove Buyer received the item, so you can all be the judges.

Here's what I do :-

When I type & print my address labels, I print two copies. One I use as labels and the second I take with me to the PO. The staff check my mail against the list and then stamp the list for me as proof of postage. No need to take photos 🙂

Since keeping records this way, I have still had several scammers Buyers message to say their items have not arrived, so I very politely message back and explain :-

Just for their peace of mind that the item was actually posted I am including a copy of the PO stamped document/receipt (which I take a photo of and blank out other Buyers names and address's - I just leave their suburb & Postcode showing)).

I also ask them to check with their local PO to ensure it's not being held as it is a padded envelope.

I also tell them I am happy to send a replacement if it is not at the PO (This of course gives them an out)

Miraculously, the item usually turns up the next day.

Since using this method I think I have only had to replace 2 items out of 100's sent. Previously I was replacing anything up to 2 or 3 for every 20 sent. I have also found asking the staff to attach a label as opposed to normal postage stamps seems to help (looks more official) Oh, and, I only ever lodge over the counter - I never use the red box anymore !

So, it could be a mixture of solutions . . . . . . .

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

clarry100 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 09:38:40 GMT

Yes cq_tech...

This was told to me over the phone by a PayPal CSR. He was adamant that the photograph of a cancelled stamp showing the addressed envelope would stand up in the event of an INR claim. I have not tested it tho so would recommend that anyone who wishes to try this should call PayPal and ask for themselves. We all know how inconsistent these CSRs can be in their interpretation of the rules.

Another method he suggested at the same time is to fill in the lodgement receipt forms (available from the AP web site) with the name and address of the buyer. The PO staff member at the counter sights your addressed envelope and stamps the matching receipt.

Either of the above two methods will stand up for INR claims according to him.

The downside is if you are mailing out 25 envelopes per day you are going to be at the PO for quite a wile taking pics or getting your receipts stamped. And you will possibly have some grumpy other customers behind you.

From the discussion with the CSR I clearly understood it to be that the important factor is proof of postage rather than proof of delivery. This rule may vary in other countries tho.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

bigbrickshop — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:01:04 GMT

I wouldn't worry about trying to provide a pic to meet PayPal requirements. When the new Money Back Guarantee comes into effect I doubt many claims will get as far as a PayPal claim.

Buyers will be automatically refunded by eBay if they claim Item not Received and sellers cannot provide evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html#inr

When a buyer doesn't receive an item

If a buyer doesn't receive an item, the buyer needs to report that they didn't receive the item by contacting the seller from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and provide updates on the delivery of the item, tracking information, or a refund.

If the buyer isn't happy with the seller's response or doesn't receive a response, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.

If asked to step in and help, we review the information provided by the buyer and seller for evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address. We require proof of signature to confirm delivery for items with a total cost of $750 or more.

If we determine that the item wasn't successfully delivered, we refund the full cost of the item and original postage via PayPal or as otherwise agreed. The seller will be required to reimburse us for the amount unless the seller can provide compelling reasons as to why the seller should not cover the costs. It is up to the seller to ensure that items are correctly listed and packed appropriately to avoid damage to the item in transit. Learn more about reimbursement.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

digital*ghost — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:22:59 GMT

@bigbrickshop wrote:
I wouldn't worry about trying to provide a pic to meet PayPal requirements. When the new Money Back Guarantee comes into effect I doubt many claims will get as far as a PayPal claim.

Buyers will be automatically refunded by eBay if they claim Item not Received and sellers cannot provide evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html#inr

When a buyer doesn't receive an item
If a buyer doesn't receive an item, the buyer needs to report that they didn't receive the item by contacting the seller from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and provide updates on the delivery of the item, tracking information, or a refund.

If the buyer isn't happy with the seller's response or doesn't receive a response, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.
If asked to step in and help, we review the information provided by the buyer and seller for evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address. We require proof of signature to confirm delivery for items with a total cost of $750 or more.

If we determine that the item wasn't successfully delivered, we refund the full cost of the item and original postage via PayPal or as otherwise agreed. The seller will be required to reimburse us for the amount unless the seller can provide compelling reasons as to why the seller should not cover the costs. It is up to the seller to ensure that items are correctly listed and packed appropriately to avoid damage to the item in transit. Learn more about reimbursement.

This actually concerns me quite a lot. So far, a very small minority of my buyers have requested a refund, I think maybe only one actually, the rest have been happy for me to send a replacement, which I almost always send registered.

But even doing that now seems like it will be a risk because if for whatever reason the request gets escalated to a case, is eBay going to take the replacement item offered and accepted, with accompanying proof of delivery, as seller resolution? o_O

A lot of the time buyers are disappointed by refunds, because they want the item they purchased, and I don't want to be in a situation where disappointing them is less of a risk than fulfilling their orders. 😞

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

harley_babes_hoard — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 11:58:49 GMT

Clarry I asked in another thread but I don't know if you saw it or not. Have you tried to make a claim like this because I was told that photos were not acceptable.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

sueken4812 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:23:02 GMT

I can see what's going to happen.
We'll all send our large letters Registered Post ... which of course require a signature on delivery.

Now we are all going to be hit with a huge increase in Items Not Received .... because the things have been carded (if the Postie does the right thing) and returned to the Post Office.

The whole thing just creates more work for everyone .....

1. The sellers having to pay more for postage and upload tracking numbers ....

2. The Posties having to return things to base ....

3. The buyers having to pay more for postage and yet still have to go to the Post Office to pick up the item, if they aren't at home to receive.

4. Ebay CS with the increased number of unhappy buyers and sellers.

I have sent 100's of large letters since starting selling here .... with less than 1% causing problems.

These changes are GOOD BUSINESS THINKING!!!! ..... NOT

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

mbselections00 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 13:22:10 GMT

And the overall Buyer experience - NOT HAPPY - so we'll get a neg anyway !

It's a no win situation for everyone - oh well except eBay, cause they'll make more money on postage fvf

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

egglesdtp — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 14:22:07 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:

Another method he suggested at the same time is to fill in the lodgement receipt forms (available from the AP web site) with the name and address of the buyer. The PO staff member at the counter sights your addressed envelope and stamps the matching receipt.

My local PO prefers me to drop my letters with postage stamps attached n the mailbox outside the PO. But perhaps these lodgement receipt forms (haven't had a look yet) may be the way to go. I cannot imagine photographing stamped letters in the actual PO. Besides which, my local PO doesn't actually stamp the letters?

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

egglesdtp — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 14:24:22 GMT

@sueken4812 wrote:
I can see what's going to happen.
We'll all send our large letters Registered Post ... which of course require a signature on delivery.
Now we are all going to be hit with a huge increase in Items Not Received .... because the things have been carded (if the Postie does the right thing) and returned to the Post Office.

The whole thing just creates more work for everyone .....
1. The sellers having to pay more for postage and upload tracking numbers ....
2. The Posties having to return things to base ....
3. The buyers having to pay more for postage and yet still have to go to the Post Office to pick up the item, if they aren't at home to receive.
4. Ebay CS with the increased number of unhappy buyers and sellers.

I have sent 100's of large letters since starting selling here .... with less than 1% causing problems.

These changes are GOOD BUSINESS THINKING!!!! ..... NOT

You are so right. It is going to be an absolute headache if this happens. However, Clarry's suggestion of getting a Lodgement Form stamped by the PO might circumvent the issues with having to register letters to prove postage. Probably a better solution than having to go through the expense and hassle of registering.

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

egglesdtp — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 14:31:11 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
Another method he suggested at the same time is to fill in the lodgement receipt forms (available from the AP web site) with the name and address of the buyer. The PO staff member at the counter sights your addressed envelope and stamps the matching receipt.

Clarry - I've just had a look at the lodgement receipt forms on the AP website, and I am concerned that there are only three options you must choose from for the type of service being used:

* Registered Post

* Express Post Platinum

* Signature item prepared through Click and Send

What if it is just a letter???

Re: Is there postal tracking for letters?

clarry100 — Tue, 07 Oct 2014 18:43:53 GMT

No we have not had to test this method of photo evidence. This is all just verbal from a PayPal CSR.
Next time I'm at my LPO I will ask them about stamping the lodgement receipts at the counter for large letters . My LPO is a corporate office rather than a franchise so not sure if this will make a difference.