topic Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ? in Selling

Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ramza311 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:01:17 GMT

Sold an item for around $500, buyer paid on 02/01/13.

I sent the item the next day 03/01/13 using the ebay flat rate+ signature around mid day. Then yesterday buyer contacted me saying item not receive and opened dispute INR on paypal. Buyer requested full refund.

According to tracking number item is still in transit.

Then buyer escalate this to paypal today (09/01/13).

What should I do ?

Has anyone got any problem with these flat rate satchel ?

I have sent more than 20+ items using these, but never has any issue.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

*sparklz* — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:09:16 GMT

As long as you have the lodgement receipt as proof of postage you are covered by paypal protection so DO NOT refund the buyer.

5 days is not long enough if it is traveling a long way.

Enter the tracking details into the dispute for paypal to see if it escalated to a claim.

Keep an eye on the tracking site and as soon as it is showing as received copy and paste that into the dispute as well and let the buyer know you can see it is delivered.

Also send the buyer a copy of the AP tracking info so they can see it is still in transit..

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ramza311 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:10:53 GMT

I don't have any lodgement receipt, satchel was dropped into the red post office box.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:11:24 GMT

Have you provided the tracking number to the buyer so that they can see the parcel has been posted and is still in transit?

There's two important things here - 1; you have proof of posting so the buyer is very unlikely to win the dispute. 2; C&S with signature on delivery only covers up to $100 so if the item is not delivered the maximum recoverable amount is $100 (plus the shipping costs I think, which would be $7.20). In the future, I highly recommend using registered post and paying the extra for high value items.

At this point in time, give the buyer and PayPal as much information as you have - the tracking number, the online status, if you have a lodgement receipt or copy of the address label (by saving a copy of the pdf doc), upload them and/or fax copies to PayPal.

It's only been 4 business days, so chances are the buyer will receive it soon enough (rather hasty to be opening a dispute at this point in time) - if the parcel has a long distance to travel, or had to go by road only, it can take as much as two weeks to arrive, so just tell them tracking shows it's still on the way and ask them to be a little patient.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ramza311 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:20:16 GMT

I have given the tracking id to buyer and paypal. Item was shipped from NSW 2015 to NSW 2352. I think the distance is quite far.

I have asked the buyer to be patient, but he still not happy.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

banf15 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:21:42 GMT

What if the shoe is on the other foot? I purchased 2 items on the 29th & 30th of Dec for $600 & $400 respectively and to date neither has shown up.

Am I getting apprehensive? Of course, but haven't raised a Paypal claim as of yet. I have written to both sellers but neither has seen fit to reply.

OP i'm sure the buyer would happily accept the item and he is not the enemy here. But to many people $500 or $1000 is more money than they can afford to lose.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ramza311 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:21:44 GMT

The travel distance is around 450+ kms.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:25:44 GMT

If you don't have a copy of the label, go to your click and send account and pull up the transaction history using the tracking number; it will show the tracking number and address details for the shipment. You can print out the summary and fax it to ebay (I'd upload a digital copy as well), that way you not only have the scan event, but proof that the tracking number is for the parcel sent to the buyer's PayPal address (at least, I presume that it was).

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:27:03 GMT

*fax it to PayPal, I meant, via the dispute.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

*sparklz* — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:28:31 GMT

What if the shoe is on the other foot? I purchased 2 items on the 29th & 30th of Dec for $600 & $400 respectively and to date neither has shown up.

Am I getting apprehensive? Of course, but haven't raised a Paypal claim as of yet. I have written to both sellers but neither has seen fit to reply.

OP i'm sure the buyer would happily accept the item and he is not the enemy here. But to many people $500 or $1000 is more money than they can afford to lose.

If you wait 10 to 15 working days and still nothing or sellers still not responding to your messages then open disputes for your protection .

Often this will get the sellers attention and reply if still nothing after a couple more days then you are well within your rights to escalate to a claim.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

tall_bearded — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:49:58 GMT

Sort of puts the old saying that ‘registered post protects the seller in a whole new light’.

All this seller has to do is prove they posted it, and they can do so by simply providing PayPal with the Click and Send details, with the process for obtaining same being full explained to the Op by Digital-Ghost.

But where does that leave the buyer. They purchased an item worth $500 and possibly acting on the advice often proffered on these boards (PayPal protected the buyer, registered post protects the seller) decided not to insure. Now, there is a possibility the item may be lost, but because the seller can prove postage, in accordance with their own policies PayPal can now make no decision other than the buyer has no right of recovery.

Therefore the only thing the buyer is left with is the hope that, if it in fact it doesn’t arrive, PayPal will make a discretionary payment.

Now compare the above with the protection the buyer would have had they had paid for registered post coupled with addition insurance to cover the loss a $500 parcel.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ramza311 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:05:47 GMT

I have sent the transaction history to paypal. The problem is tracking still showing in transit, I am really worried now.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

davewil1964 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:21:21 GMT

Now compare the above with the protection the buyer would have had they had paid for registered post coupled with addition insurance to cover the loss a $500 parcel.

Ahhh, but did the OP offer registered and insured as an option? I suspect not.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

tall_bearded — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:39:59 GMT

There is little to worry about.

All you have to prove is you posted it and if you follow Digital-Ghosts advice you will obtain the required proof, and once obtained, send it PayPal. That is, whereas in some other countries where to protect yourself against a PayPal claim the seller has to prove the Buyer received the item, here in Australia all you have to do is prove you sent it.

There is of course one potential problem. Sometimes the person who decides the claim does so using the wrong agreement (usually the US agreement) in which case they will decide for the buyer on the grounds that delivery has not been proved.

If that happens to you, simply call PayPal ask to speak to a supervisor, and tell them their decision is wrong. That is it’s the Australian agreement they should have used, and the Australian agreement only requires proof of postage which you have already provided, and as such, if they don’t reverse the decision within 24 hours you’ll lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Then, if they don’t reverse the decision within the time allowed simply lodge the dispute. Oh and just for completeness the ombudsman dispute resolution service is a free service.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:50:56 GMT

I would never send anything of that value any other way than registered with extra cover.

I use click and send but I always lodge over the counter, sometimes they don't show up in tracking until after they are delivered even when lodged but at least you know they will show up in tracking eventually and if they don't you have the lodgement receipt.

You will surely have seller protection if the item is delivered but if it isn't the buyer will have to be refunded one way or another, it may very well be that Paypal will have to cover the payment but really and truly why should they when, if you had used the correct postage method, you could have claimed the whole cost back from AP? You will still be able to claim back $100 if it was C&S with signature required which means you end up $600 better off on a $500 transaction, hardly seems fair does it?

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

tall_bearded — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 23:07:00 GMT

Australian consumer legislation confers on the seller the statutory protection of deemed delivery, and the legislation doesn’t require the seller advise the buyer of the existence of that right. Therefore it matter not if in the listing the buyer offered Registered Post.

That is, in Australia, ignorance of one’s rights and responsibilities is not a defence. Instead the expectation is, before entering into the contract, the buyer make themselves aware of the risks involved and then, if they wanted to mitigate against said risk, instruct the seller to make the necessary arrangement on their behalf.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

tall_bearded — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 23:22:51 GMT

“You will surely have seller protection if the item is delivered but if it isn't the buyer will have to be refunded one way or another”

Tell me PJ if PayPal decide not to make a discretionary payment, what is the “another” way that this buyer is going to get compensated for the lose.

The buyer chose, be it out of ignorance or deliberately, and it matters not which one it was, not to insure.

As the seller proved postage any right of recovery the buyer may have had against the seller has been extinguished.

That leaves a claim against the carrier who, because extra cover wasn’t purchased will, under their discretionary claims process reject any amount over $100.

Therefore exactly where the (an)other avenue that you say buyer has to recover the other $400 they lost because they decide not to insure something they owned.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ambridgebuckskins — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 23:23:55 GMT

Been in the same situation once before.

Go to click and send site, download a copy of the label and print it out. (this shows the tracking number and the buyer's full address)

Print out the transaction summery (this shows the date the label was purchased)

Go to the Aust Post site and punch in the tracking number. When the view comes up (scanned/ onboard with driver/lodged/whatever), take a screen shot and then print this out.

With those 3 documents, scan them into JPG files.

Go to the paypal dispute and upload the files there.

Then just wait.

If, before you hear back from them, you check the Aust Post site and it changes to 'delivered, signature received', take a screen shot of that, save it, print it (or save as a JPG if you know how), upload that file to the dispute as well.

Don't stress.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

ramza311 — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:24:15 GMT

Thanks for the advice guys. I will make sure to provide those evidence to paypal.

Cheers.

Re: Ebay flat rate satchel 500 gr not trackable ?

***super_nova*** — Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:10:43 GMT

Thanks for the advice guys. I will make sure to provide those evidence to paypal.

Cheers.

you should be safe, but should for some reason PP decides against you, call them on the number provided through the contact us in PP customer service (or help?) link in your PP account.

You are extremely lucky that the parcel was scanned at all; often it does not get scanned until it is in the delivery van. anything of that value always hand over the counter and insist on it being scanned while you are there.