topic Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy in Selling

Money Back Guarantee Policy

gordo1955 — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 02:08:14 GMT

I am a casual eBay seller basically just selling my unwanted items (mainly collectables). I have ended all my items so that I can assess the impact of the new money back guarantee policy. If I only sell items for 'Pickup Only' (either by cash or paypal), does the new policy still apply even though I make sure the buyer is fully satisfied with the item on pickup?

Regards

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

digital*ghost — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:00:10 GMT

@gordo1955 wrote:
If I only sell items for 'Pickup Only' (either by cash or paypal), does the new policy still apply

In a word, no.

eBay's MBG covers items that are posted by the seller - if the buyer arranges pick-up or freight on their own, the item isn't covered (also must paid for with one of their approved safe methods - PayPal, credit/debit card and Paymate).

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

bigbrickshop — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:02:28 GMT

The Money Back Guarantee only applies when buyers pay using one of the "safer payment methods", it does not apply for cash or bank deposit payments.

Buyers cannot make a claim under the Money Back Guarantee for Item Not Received on pickup items.

Not covered

Buyer's remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn't as described in the listing (see the seller's return policy for return options).
Items damaged during pick-up or postage or not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight).

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

I can't find anything about claiming Not as Described for pickup items.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

digital*ghost — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:16:13 GMT

@bigbrickshop wrote:

I can't find anything about claiming Not as Described for pickup items.

True... I guess it would be a bit of a grey area, trying to prove the item was as described when the buyer accepted it, or it was picked up by a freight service. If the claim was about damage, that is, if it was about something else (eg missing pieces), seems like the buyer would still be covered.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

bigbrickshop — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:26:49 GMT

I recently purchased a pickup only item and the seller insisted on PayPal payment before even giving me the address. It was only as I was driving there that I wondered what I would do if there was no item when I arrived or the item wasn't as described. My PayPal is funded by a creditcard so if I had a problem I suppose I could have done a chargeback.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

kashgar2012 — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 11:46:33 GMT

I too am a casual seller on ebay. My last activity was back in 2012 and I am back again in 2015. Boy am I Naive to the new ebay.

I listed an item for local pickup only......payment by PayPal. Reason I did that was I had heard from another local selling faebook group that many people were trying to pass counterfeit money when paying in cash, so I figured I would be good to go with PayPal as it protects me from this.

Auction ends, Item sells for $485. Money goes into PayPal, but it's on a 21 day hold. Annoying but I don't need it urgently.

During the pickup, my buyer expressed confusion about what was included, vs what was in my eBay listing. I told her she was mistaken and I would be happy to cancel transaction. She said she was all good, I loaded the goods in her car (she was very heavily pregnant) and she drove off. I even gave her a demo of the item and also waited so I could give her directions back to the freeway.

Now I am fighting against a case for Item Not As Described. Ebay have told me they will find in the buyers favour and refund all moneys to them, as well as bill me for return shipping. The item is a massive pram, so I dont want to be left with a huge courier bill.

I also raised a complaint about the buyer, and asked eBay to clarify it's money back guarantee policy for local pickup items, paid for with PayPal. They stated that these types of transactions were not eligable. However, I have another eBayer managing the buyers case saying eBay will find in the buyers favour. They both completely contradict one another.

I'm waiting to see what the outcome will be, but I think if eBay do not rule in my favour, I will arrange to meet the buyer in person, pickup all goods and issue a refund. If the buyer wants to be vindictive, they can arrange a courier, there are no guarantees on how well they will pack my items and I will be left wearing the cost.

I need adivce from any other sellers who have been through a similar situation.

Welcome to the "new" eBay in 2015. They simply don't want casual sellers anymore.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

cq_tech — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:30:38 GMT

It makes no difference whether the buyer has lodged a SNAD claim with eBay or Paypal as pickup items are specifically excluded by both. The buyer had the opportunity to reject the item at the time of pickup yet she chose to take it away with her, and the fact that she paid with Paypal is completely irrelevant.

If one of the semi-literate and poorly-trained cretins at eBay stuffs up and finds for the buyer, you should immediately lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsmans Service (or FOS) at https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute and also lodge formal complaints with the ACCC and Fair Trading.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

tall_bearded01 — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 21:23:02 GMT

Firstly, you need to ring PayPal and say to them “You revoke any consents (actual and/or implied) which eBay may attempt to rely to access the funds, in connection with transaction, and if they ignore this instruction you will lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service. Then follow up by giving intruction in writing (email will do), Also privide them with copy of the response you sent to eBay.

Then, through the dispute console provided by eBay send them something like this –

The item was listed as pick-up only.

On (insert date), which is the date arranged for pickup, the buyer inspected and accepted the goods. As such, in accordance with that part of the Sales of Goods Act which pertains to the purchase of goods on description, having inspected and accepted the goods. they cannot now reject then. Instead their only recourse is request a return of the Goods on the basis of a change of mind, and whether the seller decides to accept or reject that request is at the absolute discretion of the seller.

In any event, in so far as it is relevant, the eBay Money Back Guarantee clearly states - “Not Covered - …when the buyer arranges pick-up. The Guarantee also states change of mind returns are also excluded from the Guarantee.

I light of the above I, on (insert date), placed PayPal on notice, that any consents on which you (eBay) may rely to gain access my PayPal account in connection with this transaction are revoked, and should they ignore those instructions , a complaint will be lodged with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:28:55 GMT

Anyone considering following TBs advice and contacting to Paypal to revoke eBays permission to access Paypal funds should ensure that they consider the implications very carefully.

IMO this should include ensuring that their payment method on record in eBay is not Paypal including the method by which they pay their selling account and more importantly as the permissions that are given to Paypal are done so via the eBay user agreement it may be the case that eBay may respond by restricting selling activities on their accounts or membership all together.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:57:54 GMT

@kashgar2012 wrote:

During the pickup, my buyer expressed confusion about what was included, vs what was in my eBay listing. I told her she was mistaken and I would be happy to cancel transaction. She said she was all good, I loaded the goods in her car (she was very heavily pregnant) and she drove off. I even gave her a demo of the item and also waited so I could give her directions back to the freeway.

As far as I can see the eBay money back guarantee does not explictly exclude pick up items from its coverage as not as described.

What exactly did the buyer think was included based on your listing description ?

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

kashgar2012 — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:59:39 GMT

Morning All,

Just got of the phone with Ebay. I used their website and opted for the call me option. They pretty much called immediately.

I spoke with 3 people and asked to be escalated to someone with the authority to do the following

i. Resolve my case
ii. Authorise immediate release of funds in my paypal account

Initially they kept telling me the case was not yet closed and I might win. I eventually told them that I would be reporting Ebay to the FOS, ACCC, and Dept of Fair Trading should they not continue to escalate me to someone with authority to meet the above demands.

Eventually I got put through to a supervisor. I calmly explained the situation, very simply, using point form, to her.

Ebay hav now closed the case in my favour. Funds will be in my PayPal account within 24 hours.

A good outcome, but not counting my chickens until I have the $$$$. I am concerned the buyer can still appeal, but the notes in the ase clearly state the item is ineligable for ebay money back guarantee, so i think that possibiliity is remote.

I have screenshots and email backups of all correspondence with EBay

No PayPal on local pickup ever again.

Took around 1 hour on the phone.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:07:16 GMT

Good news. Persistance and patience has paid off.

Agree Kashgar, keeping your cool, escalating until you get a rep with some authority and being very clear about the issues is the best approach with eBay.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

ydgonline06 — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:20:55 GMT

But how do you actually stop a buyer paying with PayPal prior to pick up?

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

thecatspjs — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:27:00 GMT

By offering paymate or another little used payment alternative.

Putting credit -debit card on record with eBay with account only used for payment of eBay seller acount and not having a paypal account on record with eBay at all so paypal funds can't be frozen or accessed.

Not viable for regular sellers or businesses, but for occassional casual sellers clearing personal goods and doing pick up only - with stated preference for cash on pick up, might find it works quite well.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

tall_bearded01 — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:37:43 GMT

So what are you suggesting? That sellers allow buyers to manipulate the Guarantee to obtain refunds they are not entitled to.

In any event, in the circumstances as described above, if eBay were to find for the buyer it is they who are in breach of thier own agreement. Yes the seller has a contract with eBay to allow them access to their PayPal account, but eBay has a contract the seller which limits access to those funds onlt where (1) the buyers claim falls within the limitations contained in the Guarantee and (2) eBay can establish a right of recovery against the seller. That is, as this is a pick up item and as pick up items are excluded from the Guarantee, should eBay allow the buyers claim, and then attempt to garnish the sellers account, they will in in breach of their own agreement – breach of contract.

It may come as a surprise to you, but it was I and people like me who forced PayPal to modify wording of its User Agreement so that it clearly stated that where it referred to proof of delivery, they really meant proof of postage. It was I and people like who stopped eBay’s attempt to have PayPal as the sole payment option on the site. It was I, and people like me who put an end eBay’s policy which made PayPal a mandatory payment option that a seller must offer. And it will be I and people like me, who will bring an end to, or at the very least force major changes to, the eBay Money Back Guarantee, with the start point being removal of that part of the agreement which allows eBay to garnish peoples PayPal accounts without first obtaining a court order to do so.

Now having done all these things, has eBay responded “by restricting (my) selling activities on their (my) accounts or membership all together”? No they haven’t. They haven’t because they are not stupid enough to impose restrictions on a sellers whose only offence is to make them, eBay, abide by limitations they have imposed on themselves in their own agreement.

But yes it is the buyer’s choice as to what they do, and in fact it is my best interests that they follow your advice. In my best interests because if in the case to hand eBay find for the buyer and make the seller pay, then this becomes just another example I can site in my submissions to the minister, and a few selected cross bench senators, and the ACCC to demonstrate that there are real systemic problems with the Guarantee and for this reason alone it must go..

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

mic-s-korea — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:51:13 GMT

What a huge hassle and time waste ... would be better of listing it in online versions of the traditional classified somewhere.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

thecatspjs — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 00:10:56 GMT

Blowing your own trumpet, blundering in like a bull in a china shop to confuse others issues by throwing in legal jargon and some puffery as well as twisting others posters words, does not impress me.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

thecatspjs — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 00:21:07 GMT

I feel saddest for the regulars giving kudos to this verbose carp and pretend ego trip.

It is interesting to note that the threads that IMO have provided the most useful information to others, and yielded postive results for others, was the post by another poster and simply said the financial ombudsman wants to hear from people affected by Paypal hold. Thats all no posturing by that poster of what a brilliant advocate they were, no "I's" there - just simple, clear, thoughtful advice.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

davidc4430 — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 00:51:40 GMT

so how many sellers are in a similer position who cant or dont know how to go through all that to get an outcome that should have been simply handled by ebay in the first place? ebay are becoming sneek theives and as long as they keep getting away with it they will never change. until somebody, the FOB or ACCC or fair trading actually knock this sort of thing right out of ebay they will keep stealing from sellers! i really cant fathom anyone still listing on ebay under the present rules. why are so many just going along with it? i read these boards everyday and so many complaining but still listing. then having to make FOB complaints to get their money released. i only had it once and that was it, no more selling for the forseeable. and i could really use the extra cash right now.

Re: Money Back Guarantee Policy

tall_bearded01 — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 01:42:19 GMT

I believe that when you wrote “the most useful information to others, and yielded positive results for others, was the post by another poster and simply said the financial ombudsman wants to hear from people affected by PayPal hold” you were referring to the post by Cq-Tech.

I agreed with solution, but as decisions under the Guarantee are made by eBay (no PayPal) and as eBay and PayPal are separate legal entities, and as eBay is not a financial institution let alone a member of the Ombudsman Service, should the seller lodged have a complaint with the FOS, both eBay and PayPal would have responded by saying, “as the decision was made by eBay, and as eBay is neither a financial institution or a member, the complaint falls outside of the Ombudsman jurisdiction". So all I did was expand on what Cq-Tech advised so that dispute could be brought within the Ombudsman’s jurisdiction.

Now if you had necessary knowledge and experience you too would have identified this minor deficit, but then if you did, you wouldn’t have written “the most useful information to others, and yielded postive results for others, was the post by another poster and simply said the financial ombudsman wants to hear from people affected by Paypal hold”