topic Re: Postage of fakes in Selling

Postage of fakes

fixnwear — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:10:44 GMT

Hello to all,

I have read many times on the boards that if the fake is susspected that one doesn't have to send it back as it's illegal!

What a load of cods wallop

How does a recipient of a fake item thinks it got to him/her in the first place?

Through the post, in most cases. Australia Post delivered it OK!

Post office doesn't care/wouldn't know what is fake, all parcels are sealed - and besides, it's not their job to police that sort of thing.

Advice given to buyers here is so misleading, a great cop out - not having to go to any trouble of returning someone else's property, fake or not - if full refund is promised or even already issued.

I have also spoken to PP - their attitude is the same.

If the buyer claims a fake item and doesn't have anything official to support that claim - they'll have to return it to the seller in order to get the refund. If the seller agrees, of course.

They also are not willing to act as a police - to determine what is fake and what isn't - nor they are in too much of a hurry to tell anyone to distroy someone else's proerty rather than to post it back - as some sellers want the item back even if it is a fake.

Then the rights owner can take it up with them, not the PO or PP.

The only thing that the PO told me it would worry them is people posting flamable or otherwise hazardous items/material.

And finally, if the item has to be returned to an overseas country, going through the customs - again, no problem at all, singular items, or small quantities get here - and they can go back just the same.

Customs guys wouldn't give it a time of day - unless is a shippping container load! (Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak)

Re: Postage of fakes

cherry*135 — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:20:17 GMT

Sellers shouldn't be selling fakes, counterfeit, replica items in the first place.

Re: Postage of fakes

kylies*swap*cards* — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:21:16 GMT

It's really not that simple. The rights of the seller have been lost because they are trading in an item that breaches copyright of another company/person. It is illegal to make, sell, profit from or enable the carriage of such items whoever you are (so not just PayPal or ebay etc). It's like buying cocaine from someone saying it isn't real cocaine I want my money back and I will return it to you via post - they can't be a knowing recipient of illegal items (including fakes).

My experience with fake Nikes a while ago was PayPal didn't want me to return the item as the seller could sell them again and Nike got involved and I ended up posting it to them and they were responsible for it after that. The seller has no right to claim back illegal items.

Re: Postage of fakes

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:26:12 GMT

@fixnwear wrote:
Hello to all,
I have read many times on the boards that if the fake is susspected that one doesn't have to send it back as it's illegal!
What a load of cods wallop

No, it's true - just because someone can get away with a "what Australia Post don't know won't hurt anyone" attitude, doesn't mean it should be advocated.

Please read Australia Post's terms and conditions to confirm what is allowed and what is not - I often have to inform staff what they are because I have read them and they haven't. You will find that if it is illegal to possess someting, it is against the T&C's to post it.

Re: PayPal determining what is fake or not, no, they don't - in general the onus is on the buyer to prove that their claim is true.

But not always, PayPal have, on occasion, facilitated some absolute stupidity. The infamous violin case, for example.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/heartbreaking-paypal-orders-buyer-to-destroy-antique-violin-20120106-1pnwu.html

Re: Postage of fakes

character_parties_aus — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:34:58 GMT

The best thing to do with fakes is report the seller to the Trademark owner for Trademark infringement. We lose so much business due to fakes especially out of China but increasingly being brought in and sold ( or items that are sold as 'Inspired by' that are homemade) by Australian sellers at very cheap prices and it's incredibley frustrating. We report all fakes often to Disney for Trademark infringement and have been successful in getting listings removed on many occasions. Returns and fakes is just a mine field with so many potential ways and reasons - there could be a genuine fake or a disgruntled buyer wanting a return reason. Report the little bleepers to the Trademark holder though if you are doing the right thing and its affecting your business and hopefully they will get in touch with eBay. Unfortunately on eBay its a bit like the war on drugs as for every one you report three more pop up and eBay make it pretty much impossible to get even bonafide fakes removed unless they are reported by the trademark owner - which is crazy as there are some pretty obvious fakes out there.

Re: Postage of fakes

fixnwear — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:54:39 GMT

digital,

I'm the last person to encourage or advocate selling or buying of anything fake.

I was just merely saying that there is nothing stopping anyone posting them back to the seller and let the item be thier problem (as it's really their property after all is said & done) if the refund was issued. And let the rights owners deal with them, after all they are the best authority to accertain if it's their bona fide item or not.

And to those who say that fakes hurt the industry or operations of the rights owner - I was really thinking about that - and for the life of me I can't see that being the case. Not in any significant way.

How many LV, CC and others did you hear of closing down due to too many fakes killing their busines? Or a global reccession - or any other dissaster on a global scale!

None, that's how many.

Fakes are for poor people, as those sort of customers would never go to a proper stores due to the dire ecconomics in their life.

And even less so, no buyer of genuine goods costing heaps (and looking damn site different from a copy) would ever buy a fake instead - just because someone is making them and "flooding the market"

The only time when that might be a problem is when buying on Ebay - but it shouldn't be ,as long as buyers continually want to believe they are getting something worth thousands for peanuts. Tha's not how it works in real life - and the human greed or ignorance is always a big factor in those cases.

Re: Postage of fakes

kylies*swap*cards* — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 02:13:38 GMT

I can think of a few ways it hurts the genuine trademark/copyright owners. One is that it erodes buyers confidence - there are several sellers out there not selling $2 LV bags but selling them as the genuine thing with the retail price tag. Most buyers aren't stupid and realise an obvious fake if it's a cheapie and you bought it as a cheapie. Take a look here on ebay, there are fakes that are selling with the designer price tag to go with it - fake certificates of authenticity, fake boxes, the works. These buyers then assume everything on here is garbage and leave the site, affecting all sellers who are doing the right thing. It is happening with designer clothes, jewellery, shoes, bags, coins, memorabilia etc. The shoes I was talking about earlier were at retail price and I got them because of convenience because I already had an identical pair that were needing replacement so I knew the fakes when they came because I had genuine ones to compare to. This particular seller had a store on ebay, was using legit stock photos from Nike, had the boxes and everything. They were well known to Nike and they had been closing them down all over the net. Now I don't buy stuff like that online I go to a store which isn't so convenient for me.

Re: Postage of fakes

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 02:39:35 GMT

@fixnwear wrote:
digital,
I'm the last person to encourage or advocate selling or buying of anything fake.

I wasn't referring to the act of buying or selling fakes, though, I was referring to the information you posted which suggested it was ok to post fakes, when - in fact - it's not. Your post also came across to me as saying that because Australia Post, and/or other carriers, and customs, may not scrutinise the contents of a package, you can get away with posting such items so that makes it (at least kinda) ok, and that's what I was referring to when I said such actions shouldn't be advocated.

Usually when I post links to AP guides, my posts disappear, so I will just quote the relevant excerpt, but you can find it in full online if you want to:

"Australia Post prohibits any item, the possession or carriage of which is prohibited by a law of the
Commonwealth, a State or a Territory. "

As I said, that means if it is illegal to own, carry, possess....whatever, Australia Post prohibit it from being posted. It's illegal to possess fakes, regardless of how they came to be in one's possesstion, ergo they can not be posted.

Re: Postage of fakes

fixnwear — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 03:15:44 GMT

digital,

That's rubbish and you know it!

And the PO would know what you are posting and or deem it's a fake - how?

And please just walk around any shopping centre and see how many get arrested every day for wearing or carrying fake items.

In spite that they are such eye sores - horrible girls with even more horrible clothes, but - you guessed it, a fake designer bag hanging over the shoulder for the whole world to see!

Or even if you really want to test your theory, run up to the first cop you see and report someone, maybe you can tell them that "not only that woman is carrying a fake bag - she also hurts my eyes - that ought to count for something"

Like a very personal affront on the esthetics - an eyesore!

Maybe they would cart the offender of to jail, kicking & screaming - claiming there is no law against good taste!

Re: Postage of fakes

cherry*135 — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 03:25:17 GMT

@fixnwear wrote:

And to those who say that fakes hurt the industry or operations of the rights owner - I was really thinking about that - and for the life of me I can't see that being the case. Not in any significant way.

A person/business designs their own products and another person steals their design, makes cheap copies and sells them.

There is nothing right or fair about that.

It is not just big labels that get their designs pinched, small scale designers/ design artists have their designs copied all the time too..which has financial impacts for them.

Re: Postage of fakes

cherry*135 — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 03:27:24 GMT

I knew of a person who decided to import a smallish amount of fake designer bags and sell them on a Facebook page. Wasn't long before she was shut down, her shipment was intercepted by customs and destroyed. Just a small scale 1 person affair.

Re: Postage of fakes

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 03:37:25 GMT

@fixnwear wrote:
digital,
As I said, that means if it is illegal to own, carry, possess....whatever, Australia Post prohibit it from being posted. It's illegal to possess fakes, regardless of how they came to be in one's possesstion, ergo they can not be posted.

That's rubbish and you know it!
And the PO would know what you are posting and or deem it's a fake - how?

You can't possibly be serious....

It's there in black and white, and there is no room for individual interpretation (one of the few where there isn't) - it's not a matter of how would they know. For heaven's sake, people get away with breaking laws and/or policies every. single. day. because the relevant company or upholders of the law simply don't know that the law / policy has been broken.

But that's not the point. The point is that the law / policy has been broken / breached regardless of whether it's to the knowledge of someone who can/will do something about it, and I'm saying it is not a good thing to advocate breaking laws / policies just because you will likely get away with it.

Re: Postage of fakes

modestbods — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 04:07:22 GMT

I suspect this thread is a fake, and so shouldn't have been posted.

Just sayin...

Re: Postage of fakes

cherry*135 — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 04:14:53 GMT

( not funny to condone dodgy business practices/behaviour though, which the OP seems to do)

Re: Postage of fakes

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:23:17 GMT

DG, you stated in effect.....

"You will find that if it is illegal to possess someting, it's illegal to post it."

That sounds fair but can you cite evidence that 'possessing a counterfeit item

in Australia' is illegal.

Re: Postage of fakes

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:33:16 GMT

I believe that posting fakes is OK by Australia Post.

Perhaps someone skimmed through the guidelines and

spotted Illegally Dangerous.

AusPost's hit list

That newspaper article was interesting.

The destroyed violin.

Legally speaking isn't PayPal destroying evidence ???

Re: Postage of fakes

wilk1149 — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:35:58 GMT

That would mean Tony Abbott is illegal. He is the worst example of a counterfeit human ever. Leading a counterfeit party.

Re: Postage of fakes

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:45:37 GMT

Regarding AusPost rules.

I can't find any reference to illegal goods.

http://auspost.com.au/media/documents/dangerous-prohibited-goods-packaging-post-guide.pdf

Re: Postage of fakes

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:57:14 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
DG, you stated in effect.....
"You will find that if it is illegal to possess someting, it's illegal to post it."
That sounds fair but can you cite evidence that 'possessing a counterfeit item
in Australia' is illegal.

AFAIK a person buying a fake item for personal use isn't a criminal offense. However, my point was (imperfectly made, obviously) and for the purposes of this thread, it actually doesn't matter - fake items are illegal, and AP's T&C's prohibit illegal items.

Re: Postage of fakes

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:21:32 GMT

Here's the thing DG.

I can't find any reference to 'illegal' goods.

Maybe it's there but I just can't see it.

http://auspost.com.au/media/documents/dangerous-prohibited-goods-packaging-post-guide.pdf