topic Re: Strange Buyer ID in Selling

Strange Buyer ID

clarry100 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 20:57:57 GMT

Yesterday we had a buyer buy two different items using two different IDs but the mailing address was identical so its the same person.

The user IDs are a long string of weird letters/numbers but not quite identical.

We packed and mailed those items out yesterday so she would not have received them just yet.

Now this morning we have yet another order from the same person but under yet another variant of the same weird ID.

All these userIDs show a ZERO FB score.

It could be purchases made as a guest I'm thinking and perhaps nothing to be concerned about.

But on the other hand I'm wondering if we could be being setup for something down track. We use regular mail so no tracking and the items are all under $10 each.

Anyone have any thoughts on this kind of activity.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

pennyforum14 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:45:10 GMT

I'd say guest IDs, at least you have an address, often they don't even include that. I'd just treat them as you would any order and don't worry about it, the worst may never happen.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

cq_tech — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:00:22 GMT

Apart from your normal security procedures which we've discussed previously, are you taking photographs of your letters after the stamps have been cancelled at the PO, which as you know is accepted by Paypal as proof of delivery? If so, even if somebody is trying something dodgy you should be more than adequately covered.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:17:55 GMT

Haven't got the time and energy to go look but is ebay buyer protection not the same as Paypal where you can only make a clain if you have an account? With Paypal you can use it as a guest and if there is a problem open an account with the same email address but if it is the same for ebay it would be a lot of trouble for ten bucks.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

clarry100 — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:59:08 GMT

CQ: We haven't photographed them as we are turning out 20 envelopes per day on average. Would take up an inordinate amount of time to take pics at the PO each day. Around 40x at Xmas time rush. Those standing in the queue behind us would be very grumpy indeed. LOL.

So we just drop them into our local red street box with all our usual other stuff in place as you say.

PJ: That could well be true. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on this may care to comment on that point.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

joethenuts — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:09:43 GMT

yep looks strange but could be 3 different people living in 1 house but if its to the same name thats a different story i would contact ebay for advice under there not delivered policy sending envelope , you have no leg to stand on without tracking even with photos . you only have to read the other post with the seller the queenslander he took photos but the buyer got paid and the money was taken from the sellers account he did get his money back but he was told this is a one off , but sending 3 parcels it could be a worry even if ebay give you back i payment plus the deficit points [ now thats if you think this is a type of scam] good luck

Re: Strange Buyer ID

digital*ghost — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 01:32:35 GMT

From what I can see, eBay don't exclude eBay guests from the MBG, but they do exclude those who use PayPal as a guest, as do PayPal, so if the buyer only used eBay as a guest, they would likely be able to open either an MBG or PayPal case, but they wouldn't be able to open either if they used PayPal as a guest (with or without going on to open a PayPal account with the same details - you used to be able to, but now you have to log into an account to pay in order to be eligible for PayPal buyer protection). Well, actually they probably could open an MBG request, but not have it decided in their favour if it was escalated to a case.

eBay guest buyers can't leave feedback, either, unless they go on to create an account.

The downside is if a buyer uses PayPal as a guest, there's no seller protection, either, so chargebacks remain a danger. (You can check whether the buyer logged into a PayPal account on the payment details - where it would normally say "the sender of this payment is non US - Verified", the verified will be replaced with "Unregistered").

I get this sometimes, so far so good, I think a new 'ID' is created either each time they checkout, or for each session, so if they pay separately for something, it gets a new ID.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

expanded_perceptions — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 03:10:36 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:

The downside is if a buyer uses PayPal as a guest, there's no seller protection, either, so chargebacks remain a danger. (You can check whether the buyer logged into a PayPal account on the payment details - where it would normally say "the sender of this payment is non US - Verified", the verified will be replaced with "Unregistered").

I get this sometimes, so far so good, I think a new 'ID' is created either each time they checkout, or for each session, so if they pay separately for something, it gets a new ID.

That is cracking information!! So what would you do, if for instance you do get a buyer that shows up as 'unregistered'? We as sellers should really be able to have the option of blocking unregistered accounts from PayPal too, the scales are so far out of whack it is going to hid us on the head!!

Re: Strange Buyer ID

imastawka — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 04:34:31 GMT

Clarry, if you're a bit suss on some buyers, and seeing you self-insure,

photocopy the envelopes and then get the P.O. to stamp the photocopy

when you take the letters in for ancellation.

You should get 4 to a page, and the P.O shouldn't see this as a bother

and it won't hold up the queue.

Or get the stamps cancelled and then ask for them to be photocopied

(again 4 to a page)

They won't mind that, as you have to pay for the photocopy.

Just as good as a photo IMO

Re: Strange Buyer ID

cq_tech — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 05:30:09 GMT

@joethenuts wrote:
yep looks strange but could be 3 different people living in 1 house but if its to the same name thats a different story i would contact ebay for advice under there not delivered policy sending envelope , you have no leg to stand on without tracking even with photos . you only have to read the other post with the seller the queenslander he took photos but the buyer got paid and the money was taken from the sellers account he did get his money back but he was told this is a one off , but sending 3 parcels it could be a worry even if ebay give you back i payment plus the deficit points [ now thats if you think this is a type of scam] good luck

Regarding the queenslander who was told by eBay when his money was refunded that it was a "one-off", that's complete and utter BS on eBay's part. Do you honestly believe that eBay would refund him if they weren't obliged to by law? They only told him it was a one-off so it wouldn't become common knowledge that what eBay are demanding by way of proof of delivery is illegal under AU Consumer Law. Just like Paypal, they are legally obliged to accept deemed delivery as proof of delivery. The fact is that under the Sale of Goods Act their terms are illegal and therefore null and void, and a complaint to the FOS would have forced them to refund if they hadn't done so voluntarily.

Don't bother arguing the point because you clearly have no idea, and I'm not the least bit interested in hearing what you think, which is quite obviously based purely on what you read in this forum. I'm not even asking you to take my word for it. What I will do however is suggest that you read up on the relevant Consumer Law before confusing the issue any further.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

joethenuts — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 05:51:29 GMT

did that buyer get a refund do you think ebay is going to pay out buyers out of there pocket [you must be dreaming ]

and did the queenslander get a deficit point mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm he was lucky ebay refunded the poor buyer his money back otherwise a big fat red dot for non delivery ; look it does not matter whos fault it is but if you were a buyer and did not get your goods what would you do mmmmmmm have a nice day

my law is comom sense

Re: Strange Buyer ID

digital*ghost — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 07:21:55 GMT

@expanded_perceptions wrote:
That is cracking information!! So what would you do, if for instance you do get a buyer that shows up as 'unregistered'? We as sellers should really be able to have the option of blocking unregistered accounts from PayPal too, the scales are so far out of whack it is going to hid us on the head!!

The thing that gets me about it is that was the best thing PayPal had going for it - seller protection for a chargeback, no matter the circumstances, as long as the seller fulfilled eligibility requirements, which they no longer have full control over (as far as I know, as I've never seen an option to restrict payment type except for limiting it to credit cards only). And by that I mean a chargeback can be contested, but in the case of unauthorised use (particularly genuinely unauthorised use, eg. the buyer has used a stolen credit card). it's pretty hard to contest and the retailer is the one who gets made to pay the cost - and how many people who use stolen credit cards will actually maintain an active PayPal account, plus log into it to make a purchase?

Re: Strange Buyer ID

crichtonscraftgwen — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 07:36:21 GMT

Did all three purchasers use the same Paypal Account.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

cq_tech — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:03:10 GMT

@joethenuts wrote:
did that buyer get a refund do you think ebay is going to pay out buyers out of there pocket [you must be dreaming ]
and did the queenslander get a deficit point mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm he was lucky ebay refunded the poor buyer his money back otherwise a big fat red dot for non delivery ; look it does not matter whos fault it is but if you were a buyer and did not get your goods what would you do mmmmmmm have a nice day
my law is comom sense

I already told you I wasn't going to waste my time arguing the point with you, but in answer to your question, as a seller I'm fully aware of where my responsibility ends so as a buyer, I know that Australia Post bears the responsibility for delivering my item but as they only provide a statutory cover of $50, if my item cost any more than that, I would have paid the seller to register my item prior to sending so that I was fully covered in the event of loss by AP. If I'm stupid enough to have a $500 item sent to me without insurance and it goes astray in the mail, then that's my bad luck and I have to wear it, not the seller, and not AP (beyond their statutory $50 limit for uninsured mail). If you'd read up on Consumer Law, you'd know that, and not simply rely on "common sense" which, despite what you may believe, has absolutely no place in law.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

mbselections00 — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:55:34 GMT

clarry, another way around it would be once the staff have done their bit & you've paid, take the envelopes to the side so the next customer can be served and take your photos and then hand them back - happens frequently at my local (very busy, but very friendly) PO. The staff are very considerate of everyone & before they serve the next customer, will say, when you're finished just pass them back to me, so the customers don't think you're jumping the queue

99.9% of my items are sent large letter, so when I do my postage labels I do a duplicate list which I take with me to the post office, so when I go in they stamp each address for me & attach the list to the receipt, that way there's basically no delay at the counter and you have a hard copy so to speak. On the couple of occasions I have needed the proof of sending, I have simply taken a photo of the list & the receipt & edited out the names and street addresses & just left the suburb of the irrelevant buyers & left the required one showing in full.

I guess it comes down to what works best for you, but I agree, I wouldn't want to be standing at the counter taking photos (I have been in the line behind people who do it, & as a customer, it's annoying & I know it annoys the staff, but they are quite happy for you to move aside to do it)

If you have a photocopier at home, you could copy the addressed envelopes as stawks suggested, but do it at home & get the staff to stamp the photocopy.

I have had a few items go missing & am usually willing to replace them, but I do like to send the buyer proof that their order was posted in the first instance, for their peace of mind that I am not a scammer. It's also quite amazing that once the 'proof' has been sent to them, the item often miraculously turns up, (showing who the scammer really is ) so I really do believe it is worth the extra effort to have thorough detailed records.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

lyndal1838 — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:20:30 GMT

@joethenuts wrote:

my law is comom sense

This explains why you have no idea how ebay works. Common sense has no relation to ebay "law" or policy, just as ebay policy has no relation to Australian Law.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

joethenuts — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 21:16:01 GMT

very simple you can argue what you think that ebay is going against the law there are posts going back 4 months about we are going to thhe fos and the law and stuff , but has the paypal 21 day policy gone has the ebay buyer protection gone [no] [no] there is a reason why policys change think about it [i dont have to agree with all there policys and i dont agree with these but its there site and if you wanna play in it thats there rules , no good arguing about the law as there are too many floors in it, and thats why these policys are still there and if you want to believe the bearded one thats why he is selling cups and suses on ebay and not earning $750 an hour as a layer.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

clarry100 — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 21:56:11 GMT

Yes all three purchases used the same PayPal account.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

clarry100 — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 22:05:59 GMT

We mail out around 15-20 envelopes per day, so to put those over the counter with photos will be a real pain.

Also the odd one pushes the boundaries of large letter a "bit" so we may get some rejected as opposed to putting them in the red street box where it seems they never check for envelope thickness as we never get pinged.

We get about 1 in 500-600 or so where we get an INR claim (always by message rather than official), and after explaining our reporting process quite often they mysteriously show up. We would send out a replacement for a real lost item about 1 in 1000 I would think.

I was trying to imagine other possible avenues for a scam when I originally posted this. INR wasn't the real bother.

But I could not think of anything, just wondered if others may have been be able to.

So far nothing back from the buyer and by now she would have received 2 of the 3 items. No FB left either.

Re: Strange Buyer ID

cq_tech — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 23:50:49 GMT

You appear to be continuing to labour under the misapprehension that whatever eBay states in their user policy must be followed to the letter because it's their site, but the fact is that eBay's policy is in breach of Australian Consumer Law, and as a result is unenforceable.

Furthermore, no company policy is legally permitted to abrogate Australian Law and because eBay's does, it is consequently null and void, and no longer applies. You seem to believe that eBay Policy and the Law are the same thing when nothing could be further from the truth.

Because eBay is not a financial institution themselves, the FOS has no real legal jurisdiction over them except insofar as those areas where it's clear that eBay and Paypal are working together, which is why the FOS can order Paypal to lift their illegal 21 day hold on sellers' deposits (and why Paypal comply when so ordered).

However, eBay's MBG is a real can of worms because it appears that they are providing a form of insurance while not licensed to do so, and it is up to the ACCC to do something about it and I wouldn't mind betting that eBay's actions are being investigated as I speak.

Finally, it's pretty bad form to slag off another member when you have absolutely no idea of what he currently does in real life and it would pay you to be very careful because nobody who publicly publishes inaccurate information about somebody is immune from a libel suit.