First Contact

[bluecat*dancing]

Did anyone watch "First Contact" on SBS last night and/or the reaction on NITV? It's a three part series in which a group of people who have had no contact with Indigenous people spend time in various Aboriginal communities over a period of 28 days. I was shaking my head at the rudeness and ignorance of some of the participants.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-19/sbs-program-first-contact-sparks-social-media-frenzy/5901890

[rabbitearbandicoot]

ele wrote:"It is worth remembering that until fairly recently the Irish were also stereotyped as feckless drunks  - and they, too were the victims of colonisation."

it's also worth remembering that  Australians are sterotyped as feckless drinkers but what does that mean about Australians? What are they having feelings  of  'dispossession, disempowerment and a sense of hopelessness' about?

feckless - synonyms: useless, worthless, incompetent, inefficient, inept, good-for-nothing, ne'er-do-well;
lazy, idle, slothful, indolent, shiftless, spiritless, apathetic, aimless,unambitious, unenterprising; informal no-good, no-account, lousy

[lurker172602]

I don't think there was a lot of electricity anywhere in 1788.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

ele wrote:"It is worth remembering that until fairly recently the Irish were also stereotyped as feckless drunks  - and they, too were the victims of colonisation."

it's also worth remembering that  Australians are sterotyped as feckless drinkers but what does that mean about Australians? What are they having feelings  of  'dispossession, disempowerment and a sense of hopelessness' about?

feckless - synonyms: useless, worthless, incompetent, inefficient, inept, good-for-nothing, ne'er-do-well;
lazy, idle, slothful, indolent, shiftless, spiritless, apathetic, aimless,unambitious, unenterprising; informal no-good, no-account, lousy

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Rubbish! Australians like to stereotype themselves as 'larrikins' which includes downing quite a lot of the amber nectar, but they certainly don't stereotype themselves as feckless - and the rest of the world doesn't really care enough to have any strong opinions of them at all.

And if you don't believe that dispossession and disempowerment were the root causes of social problems in all three of the indigenous societies I meantioned, then what, in your opinion, was the common cause? Do you subscribe to the flawed gene theory or was it all down to mere coincidence.

[the_great_she_elephant]

I for one realise that if England had not been invaded so many times - (we) they would possibly still be living in stick huts. So, in that case I MAINTAIN THAT England (amongst others) benefitted from being invaded by more advanced societies. Do you not agree?

that is a patently absurd notion. The Britons weren't living in isolation, cut off from contact with any other cultures. They were in contact with and  trading tin with continental Europe and even  Phonecia long before the Roman invasion; the first Saxons were not a sophisticated people, and, contrary to popular belief they did not kill off, drive out or displace the existing culture, neither did the Normans. It is inconceivable that, had these invasions not occurred  the Britons would have remained an iron age people up to the present day.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Cultural benefit comes from CONTACT with more advanced civilisations, not necessarily from invasion by them. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

ele wrote:"It is worth remembering that until fairly recently the Irish were also stereotyped as feckless drunks  - and they, too were the victims of colonisation."

it's also worth remembering that  Australians are sterotyped as feckless drinkers but what does that mean about Australians? What are they having feelings  of  'dispossession, disempowerment and a sense of hopelessness' about?

feckless - synonyms: useless, worthless, incompetent, inefficient, inept, good-for-nothing, ne'er-do-well;
lazy, idle, slothful, indolent, shiftless, spiritless, apathetic, aimless,unambitious, unenterprising; informal no-good, no-account, lousy

---

Rubbish! Australians like to stereotype themselves as 'larrikins' which includes downing quite a lot of the amber nectar, but they certainly don't stereotype themselves as feckless - and the rest of the world doesn't really care enough to have any strong opinions of them at all.

And if you don't believe that dispossession and disempowerment were the root causes of social problems in all three of the indigenous societies I meantioned, then what, in your opinion, was the common cause? Do you subscribe to the flawed gene theory or was it all down to mere coincidence.

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You will of course note that I crossed out the word feckless in the part where I referred to Australians, and I also included the Dictionary definition to emphasize just that ie that I didn't include that in their definition.

No, I don't subscribe to the flawed genes theory, although some people are more susceptible to alcohol, as you will know.

I am open to suggestions - sorry, I forgot, it has already been decided that I am closed minded. 

So, you are saying that if the baliffs came and took my house, and I had to find somewhere else to live, It would be a certainty that I would take up drinking? And that my children would take up drinking and my grandchildren would continue the obsession and so on? An interesting theory. But, hangon. My father DID lose his house. He didn't take up booze - he was too busy trying to make money to get another house. I didn't take up BOOZE and nor did any of my siblings. None of my or their children took up booze because my father had been disposessed of his home. They put their heads down and all got jobs and bought their own homes.

So, while I agree that the Aboriginals HAVE had a hard time of it over the years, I also agree with the leader last night, the one that didn't wallow in self pity, he took himself and his children to the city, got a job and BROKE THE CYCLE. And the other fellow who instills in his children that getting into a habit of getting out doing exercise in the mornings. If these two, amongst MANY others I am sure, can do it, why can't others?

Not that you need to know this, but I'll tell you just as an example of what I am talking about. I used to suffer debilitating migraines! If I went more that 5 or 6 days without one, I thought I was in heaven (not literally of course). I COULD have gone onto a disability pension at that stage - it was offered to me, but I said 'bugga that' and started a small business for myself making flyscreens. It didn't place any undue stress on me in that I could do it at my own pace, but at least I made an effort. Now, I know that everyone can't make flyscreens but at that time it was something that kept me off the dole / pension. Please note that I DIDN'T TAKE UP BOOZE BECAUSE I FELT  SORRY FOR MYSELF. I cannot understand why ANYONE would take up booze or drugs but then that's just me.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Cultural benefit comes from CONTACT with more advanced civilisations, not necessarily from invasion by them. 

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You will know of course how much advancement was made when the Greeks invaded took their civilization to different parts. Rome brought all sorts of innovations to Britain and to all parts of their empire through their invasions  contact. So, Yes, not necessarily through invasions but a HECK OF LOT OF IT WAS.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

Now I have to feed the family so I'll have to RUN but I'll be back later.

[2106greencat]

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@lobs211 wrote:

For someone to say in 2014 that the stolen generation were better off cos they got a white mans education is beyond my belief.

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It is beyond the belief of most 'NORMAL' Australians......

how anyone could believe that a child (any child) be better off away from the parents, is mind boggling!

And I am not referencing those children who are in danger from negligent parents, I am referencing those children of parents whose only CRIME was that they were aboriginal.

I said my first post would be my last - well SUE me, I lied, this has just made me so F******G angry.......

My son is half Aboriginal, and half white kiwi, I am the white kiwi, and I encouraged him to follow and trace his ancestry, because it is a source of pride, where you come from, who you are, and I am so releived to say he has NEVER faced this sort of racist carp  that has been evident from some posters here.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@2106greencat wrote:

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@lobs211 wrote:

For someone to say in 2014 that the stolen generation were better off cos they got a white mans education is beyond my belief.

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It is beyond the belief of most 'NORMAL' Australians......

how anyone could believe that a child (any child) be better off away from the parents, is mind boggling!

And I am not referencing those children who are in danger from negligent parents, I am referencing those children of parents whose only CRIME was that they were aboriginal.

I said my first post would be my last - well SUE me, I lied, this has just made me so F******G angry.......

My son is half Aboriginal, and half white kiwi, I am the white kiwi, and I encouraged him to follow and trace his ancestry, because it is a source of pride, where you come from, who you are, and I am so releived to say he has NEVER faced this sort of racist carp  that has been evident from some posters here.

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Have I said anything about not being proud of your roots? No.

Have I said anything derogatory about Aboriginals (full/half/Quarter) or whatever that want to make an effort? No.

Have I said anything about those who just want to sit in a remote camp somewhere feeling sorry for themselves, and thinking that the world owes them a living - and drinking their lives away. Yes.

No-one is asking anyone to leave their culture behind completely - as I said in my thing about the stolen generation - I don't agree with way it was done, and I think there should have been some arrangements made for visits and education in both areas.

I will do some more research on the stolen generation, but I still stand by what I have said about it not being a one way street. ALL OF US BOTH WHITE AND BLACK HAVE TO MAKE THE EFFORT.