Should we teach both Evolution and Intelligent Design in science classes?

[the_bob_delusion]

Should we teach both and let the students decide for themselves?

Go

[curmu-curmu]

Sarcasm does not become you. Nor does feigned ignorance.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

---

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

---

But no matter how many billion times you shuffle the cards, it will NEVER produce a new card - without intervention. So, nonliving matter, no matter how many billions of years you sit looking at it, will NEVER come to life.

But if you combine one part of hydrogen with one part of oxygen it turns into water.

---

and where, in the early earth, did the hydrogen and the oxygen come from, and who combined them? And even IF they existed and combined, how does that then make life?

Even IF my non-living-matter above is in an environment full of oxygen and hydrogen and water and whatever else you like - it still won't come to life. It may rust and decay but it will never come to life.

[the_bob_delusion]

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@the_bob_delusion wrote:

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Sorry, I keep mixing up EVOLUTION with ABIOGENESIS. But then, so do most people who say they believe in EVOLUTION.

I don't see how you can confuse them. They are totally separate concepts

. Many Christians believe in evolution, but not in abiogenesis. i.e they believe God created some form of microbial life, which over billions of years evolved into all the species we see today.

Most scientistshowever, do believe in abiogenesis i.e. that life originally arose from nonliving matter. and over billions of years evolved into all the species we see today.

---

As I have said on here MANY times, I believe that animals, plants etc can mutate and so become a new species of that particular animal or plant - eg Elephants - Indian and African - but they cannot mutate into another entirely different animal. I believe that things can become bigger or smaller depending on environment. So, if that is evolution so be it.

I must admit, I have never met a Christian who believes that God created microbial life (only) and that evolved into all the life forms we have today. I admit that there are some who still believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, but I have never believed that. It seems totally silly to me that some say Dinosaurs died out at Noah's flood - which I have heard some say. I believe that Dinosaurs died out Millions of years ago.

I do NOT believe that LIFE can come from nonliving matter - there have been thousands of experiments to try to prove this and ALL HAVE FAILED.

---

Genesis 2:7King James Version (KJV)

 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Life from nonliving matter?  Nah. Can't happen!

---

You are talking 'life from nonliving matter' WITHOUT ANY INTERVENTION. tHE ABOVE is talking about life BEING GIVEN to a man, who we all know if mostly water and carbon and a bit of other stuff.

Think about a piece of metal - laying on the ground - there is NO WAY that piece of metal can form itself into a knife without INTERVENTION by a creator - ie a man/woman who knows how to form it into a knife. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

---

You're using the argument from ignorance and God of the Gaps. We don't know how it happened. THerefore, *insert your preferred* God. 

---

Ignorance? Bob? Do you know something that thousands of scientists don't? Perhaps you can change base metal into gold too?

---

You really need to study philosophy to realise how many falacies you're committing. Life is made up predominantly of 5 common elements. Guess what. It just happens the Universe is predominantly made up of the same common elements. Just because we don't know someone we can't just automatically insert our fav. God. 

If you were born in the time of the vikings you would say it's impossible that lightning and thunder just came about naturally therefore the God of Thor.  exist. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

Sarcasm does not become you. Nor does feigned ignorance.

---

I didn't fein ignorance - Bob told me I was ignorant, but he's done that a lot on here, as well as many other names.

[curmu-curmu]

Well...I'm off to bed.
Stupidity, trolling, feigned ignorance - call it what you will, is just not worth my time debating it.

One of these days, a creationist will come forwards and say...'we know we don't have a shred of proof for our beliefs, but it's what we choose and want to believe.'

The first honest theist.

[the_bob_delusion]

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@the_bob_delusion wrote:

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Sorry, I keep mixing up EVOLUTION with ABIOGENESIS. But then, so do most people who say they believe in EVOLUTION.

I don't see how you can confuse them. They are totally separate concepts

. Many Christians believe in evolution, but not in abiogenesis. i.e they believe God created some form of microbial life, which over billions of years evolved into all the species we see today.

Most scientistshowever, do believe in abiogenesis i.e. that life originally arose from nonliving matter. and over billions of years evolved into all the species we see today.

---

As I have said on here MANY times, I believe that animals, plants etc can mutate and so become a new species of that particular animal or plant - eg Elephants - Indian and African - but they cannot mutate into another entirely different animal. I believe that things can become bigger or smaller depending on environment. So, if that is evolution so be it.

I must admit, I have never met a Christian who believes that God created microbial life (only) and that evolved into all the life forms we have today. I admit that there are some who still believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, but I have never believed that. It seems totally silly to me that some say Dinosaurs died out at Noah's flood - which I have heard some say. I believe that Dinosaurs died out Millions of years ago.

I do NOT believe that LIFE can come from nonliving matter - there have been thousands of experiments to try to prove this and ALL HAVE FAILED.

---

Genesis 2:7King James Version (KJV)

 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Life from nonliving matter?  Nah. Can't happen!

---

You are talking 'life from nonliving matter' WITHOUT ANY INTERVENTION. tHE ABOVE is talking about life BEING GIVEN to a man, who we all know if mostly water and carbon and a bit of other stuff.

Think about a piece of metal - laying on the ground - there is NO WAY that piece of metal can form itself into a knife without INTERVENTION by a creator - ie a man/woman who knows how to form it into a knife. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

---

You're using the argument from ignorance and God of the Gaps. We don't know how it happened. THerefore, *insert your preferred* God. 

---

Ignorance? Bob? Do you know something that thousands of scientists don't? Perhaps you can change base metal into gold too?

---

You kidding me right???? We CAN create Gold from other base metals with a particle accelerator. THousands of scientist DO know that. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

Well...I'm off to bed.
Stupidity, trolling, feigned ignorance - call it what you will, is just not worth my time debating it.

One of these days, a creationist will come forwards and say...'we know we don't have a shred of proof for our beliefs, but it's what we choose and want to believe.'

The first honest theist.

---

No, ALL creationists in fact all Christians say that already - it's called FAITH.

So far you haven't debated it, you have stated your beliefs and told believers they are wrong and closed minded - that's not a debate.

[the_bob_delusion]

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

Sarcasm does not become you. Nor does feigned ignorance.

---

I didn't fein ignorance - Bob told me I was ignorant, but he's done that a lot on here, as well as many other names.

---

Actually I'm saying you're using argumentum ad ignorantiam, i.e the argument from ignorance. Look it up. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

[rabbitearbandicoot]

Good night. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four

Is this talking about Abiogenesis or Evolution there Bob?