fraudulent customer doing chargebacks

[laptopkieran]

Hi, i have had a customer buy 8 items off me in separate transactions adding up to a total of $2910.00. Then two other sellers contacted me and told me that the buyer does chargebacks.

After checking my paypal, i noticed that for every transaction the buyer used a diffrent paypal account, and already has three "Unauthorised transaction" disputes open against me.

I sent Paypal and Ebay a email explaining what this buyer is doing to multiple sellers, and all i got back was a stupid email telling me to make sure that the money is in my paypal account before sending  items...

So now i am lost of what to do.. so thought i would come to this forum and see if any experienced sellers could give me  some suggestions on what to do next?.

I think Ebay should be getting the authorities onto the buyer, not giving him his money back.

[aj111003]

You either posted by a method qualifying for Paypal seller protection in which case you can successfully defend the chargebacks or you did not in which case you will have to refund the payments and take out civil proceedings against the buyer to try and get your money back.

If you used click & send, registered post, platinum express or eparcel then you are OK.

PJ mentioned Paypal Seller Protection,  PJ if you are around would appreciate if you could answer this one for me ....or anyone else who may know, does Paypal seller protection also cover using Parcel Post Plus Satchels which have a tracking number? Just Wondering?? thanks

[phorum_junkie*]

If you mean the red satchels with a tracking number then no they do not qualify for seller protection, they work just like the yellow express satchels. Even if they are lodged over the counter there is nothing from AP that has the buyers name and address on.

For protection you need to use registered post, click & send (lodged in at PO) platinum express, regular express parcel (not the satchels) or eparcel. The 5kg satchels used to qualify as you had a stamped slip with the name and address but I haven't bought one for years so have no idea if that is still the case.

[viewmont1071]

If the AP receipt for any of their products has the buyers postcode and the date the item was sent then it qualifies for the seller protection policy

AS a minimum for proof of shipment for the paypal seller protection policy you require an receipt with the date the item was sent and the buyers postcode.

This information can easily be verified by following the links with the relevant info copied and pasted below and taken directly from paypals user agreement and policies.

It is integral that as a seller you understand why an AP product may or may not qualify the sale for seller protection policy acceptance

https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_AU#Schedule%201.%20PayPal%20Seller%20Protection%20Policy

ie 2c limitations on the seller protection policy> definition and interpretation of "proof of shipment" in Seller Protection Policy context. A link is supplied to paypals requirements with the minimum being buyer postcode and date of delivery to the carrier.

https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_AU#2.%20Definitions%20and%20interpretation

2. Limitations on the PayPal Seller Protection Policy

C. you do not provide Proof of Shipment or respond to our other requests for information in a timely manner

from definitions and interpretation

Proof of Shipment means the proof of shipment accepted by us as set out within the “Proof of Shipment” page on the Safety Advice section of our website;

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/security/sell-shippingrecommendations

Buyers and sellers, at the very least, must provide documentation that includes the date the item was sent, plus one of:

    1 An official acceptance by the shipper, such as a postmark or online status (status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable)
    2 The recipient's delivery address showing at least the state, city and postcode (or international equivalent)
     3 A receipt from Australia Post showing at least the recipient's suburb, city or postcode (or international equivalent)

[viewmont1071]

So if you purchase a single bag and the AP receipt shows the date of delivery to carrier or the tracking information from that bag shows delivery to the buyers postcode and also was scanned in at the post office on presentation so that the date of delivery to the carrier is noted then the postal method qualifies for seller protection as per paypals user agreement and policies.

Paypal and ebay the obfuscation experts

[viewmont1071]

However.......

if that same bag is not scanned in upon presentation or is scanned but the information (date) does not show (ie you cannot retreive it) on APs tracking site or if the package is last scanned at a postcode that is not the buyers ie. a larger sorting centre

......then that bag does not qualify for the seller protection policy.........

SIMPLE

  ebay and paypal the obfuscation experts

[aj111003]

Thank you Viewmont for the clarification.

[lemmayj]

I (on my other ID) experienced a similar scenario last year with a US buyer who bought $800 of goods from me and about  $10,000 worth of goods from 10 other sellers, all non-US. Items were shipped to a US post box and the buyer claimed item not received against all his sellers.

There were three holds on my funds

1) paypal "invesigated" the transaction for a couple of weeks - I supplied my proof of postage and all was well

2) The buyer opened an ebay.com buyer protection case. I'd posted by express courier international which supplied the required online proof of delivery/signature. Paypal put a hold on the money again and released it after a couple of weeks.

3) The buyer did a credit card chargeback. I suspect he won this but paypal covered me with seller protection so they lost money, not me.

I talked to many of the other sellers: many had insufficient postal tracking to satisfy ebay.com seller protection requirements.

They deregistered him from ebay fairly quickly (by ebay standards), about 2 months after he started the INRs.

I notice the OP's buyer is in Germany. This has the potential to make things more difficult if he was logged into ebay.de when he purchased and tries to use ebay Germany buyer protection rather than paypal protection.  I'm not sure of the fine details of the German policy (since it's on the German ebay site in German), but be aware that paypal Australia won't cover you for claims via German ebay. You'd need to satisfy the seller protection conditions specific to ebay Germany.

Hopefully the buyer will stick with the credit card unauthorised use chargeback, which is dealt with by paypal Australia, not ebay.de.

[laptopkieran]

They said i have 7 days to respond. Then after 4 days they closed one case for $660.00 and gave him the money back. Then they sent me an email saying "Thanks for your quick response about the following transaction". Yet i did not respond to the transaction...

So i will try ring them today about that one.

And he has done it to more sellers now. I don't know why they will not ban him. Also another user on Ebay from germany bought the same items from me on the same day, i looked at his feedback, and he is doing the same thing on that account to other sellers.

[phorum_junkie*]

For something worth $660 presumably you sent it registered post with extra cover in which case all you needed to do was fax Paypal a copy of the reg post lodgement form.

[laptopkieran]

Does not matter the value... i had 7 days to respond. And yes i have been on the phone to paypal today. I am faxing them everything tomorrow morning. They said i should be able to get most of the money back. I asked why some of the cases have been closed early, and i did not get a real answer other then then telling me that the buyer is setting him self up by leaving a paper trail.

So in the end,  my prospective is dont send ebay/paypal emails or you get irrelevant messages back. After talking to ebay today they put me through to paypal. Paypal said they could see 4 cases open and gave me the details for faxing them the receipt. So, so far i have probably lost $1500.00 +  which i will not be giving back to paypal. I had 7 days to repsond... that is their fault if they close the case early without me responding.