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@vicr3000 wrote:
"If the deniers are wrong, the future generations will struggle to survive."

You cant prove that, it is scare mongering, not backed up by anything except a crystal ball.

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    It's just the thoughts of people who are terrified of change.....modern man has adapted through 200 000 years of change.

    Some are just hysterical and alarmed........others not so much.

I tend to think that the calculations that have been used in determining sea level rise are in error.

Ice that is water borne will no raise the sea level even one centimeter.

Ice that is on land mass will. If yo calculate the volume of ice on Antarctica and add that to the volume of water in the oceans that will determine the change in level.

You cam forget the arctic ice , that is water borne.

Try it yourselves some time but an ice block in a bucket and fill the bucket with water so that the ice floats then fill it to the brim and see if it overflows once the ice melts

Basic science folks 🙂

  It's just the thoughts of people who are terrified of change.....modern man has adapted through 200 000 years of change.

    Some are just hysterical and alarmed........others not so much.

I didn't realize that modern man existed 200 millenia ago .....Oh, you're talking about  hunter-gatherer hominids, not someone capable of starting a chain saw to denude the forests of South America and Indonesia.........then there's the fact that even 200 years ago,  there were only a billion humans populating the earth, much easier to find food, whether you gather it or hunt it.   Today there a 7 billion souls sucking up oxygen..........Now imagine what would happen if our agricultural centers were inundated, transportation disrupted, potable water sources gone............disease and starvation would flourish, the die-off would be immense.

But relax.........long before the seas engulf the land, some disease now festering in a fetid African swamp will erupt worldwide, or food shortages will pit neighbor against neighor.........even today, there is a struggle for adequate water, fortunately, the struggle takes place in the courtroom, but soon enough if will be in the streets.

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@poddster wrote:

I tend to think that the calculations that have been used in determining sea level rise are in error.

 

Ice that is water borne will no raise the sea level even one centimeter.

 

Ice that is on land mass will. If yo calculate the volume of ice on Antarctica and add that to the volume of water in the oceans that will determine the change in level.

 

You cam forget the arctic ice , that is water borne.

 

Try it yourselves some time but an ice block in a bucket and fill the bucket with water so that the ice floats then fill it to the brim and see if it overflows once the ice melts

 

Basic science folks 🙂

 

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  You need to included all sheet ice from glaciers too Pods (Mountain tops) however a lot seem happy where they are.

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@siggie-reported-by-alarmists wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

My family has farmed crops and sheep in very marginal ( goyders line ) country for several generations. In the 1930,s-50,s my uncles always religiously had the ground prepared and crops sown by anzac day. Now we are very lucky if we have had the opening rains by Anzac day. Growing season rainfall appears to be falling and seasons are cutting off quicker than in the past. Our long term average grain yields where 8 bags to the acre ( old language ) and are now 6 bags to the acre and falling. The really scary thing is this is with huge advances in grain technology such as legume and canola break crops, zero tillage, ( not turning the soil to expose it to drying atmosphere ) ,stubble retention ( mulching ) , spraying of summer weeds to reduce their use of sub soil moisture etc. etc. Without these technological advances our grain yields would be further reduced.

 

On the sheep front our carrying capacity has halved in thirty years from one sheep to the uncropped acre, to one sheep to two uncropped acres. When I was a child we used to have huge clover crops. Old 8 mm. family films show me and my siblings struggling through them to collect wild mushrooms ( now gone ) . The last big clover year was thirty five years ago, when I left school. We spent the hot summer carting tens of thousands of bales of clover hay and made huge stacks the size of industrial sheds. ( the remains of one of these are still there.) It makes me cry to think of the work that went into that stack and to see it rotting away.

 

Clovers have completely dissappeared from many farms and the native pine and mallee trees on the sides of the road are showing the effects of drying conditions, with the crown of the mallee being a skeleton of sticks, with leaves concentrated lower down the branches as the trees shrink in size to cope with harsher conditions.

 

I have been a keen student of nature all of my life and can see gradual changes taking place. As this is some of the most marginal farming country, a keen observer will notice changes here first.

 

I also own a small property in high rainfall country. Some of the neighbors who have lived in the area for generations are seeing changes in the dates that springs and small creeks begin to flow each season.

 

Sorry folks, it aint a scientists theory based on computer models that we can argue over. Its already happening on a large scale NOW  !!!!

 

 

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What is happening large scale now?

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I wouldnt be so bold as to enter the argument on the theoretical, computer based modeling that most here are basing their discussions on. While I follow that debate with interest, my only real knowlege and expertise is at the enviromental fringes of productive agriculture where the effects of climate change will be noticed first.

Whats happening now ???

I left the area that I grew up in, partly because the decreases in productivity we are seeing meant my business was no longer viable. I retained a family farm in the area and still work on this property regularly. 

Many of the remaining farmers are struggling to adapt to the changes. Modern farming systems and computer controlled equipment are now essential to grow any sort of crop at all, and this technology is slowing, and to a point hiding some of the effects of climate change. One of the essential tools is computer GPS controlled steering systems. The previous years stubble is left standing and the new crop is sown between the rows of the old crop. This shades the new seedlings and protects the soil from exposure to the sun. Advanced farmers are trialling which direction to sow, to alighn crops with the arc of the sun. In winter the sun shines on the siol, but as the suns arc is changed in spring and summer, the crop is shaded by last years stubble.

The technologies are expensive and have seen most smaller farmers driven from the land to be replaced by a handfull of larger family farmers who buy the equipement and run the machines 24 hours a day. ( these farmers carry substantial debts, often in seven figure sums. )

Livestock is becoming extinct in the districts as the stubble ( crop residue ) needs to be retained for the new crops protection. As all summer weeds are sprayed there is little feed available to stock from summer rains. As rainfall becomes less during the traditional growing season, legumes and canola break crops become unviable meaning grains are the only option.  Basically it is becoming a mono-culture system of farming, reliant on a few crops and high technology. 

This isnt some scary future armagedon movie. This is happening right now in marginal farming districts all around Australia.

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@this-one-time-at-bandcamp wrote:

  It's just the thoughts of people who are terrified of change.....modern man has adapted through 200 000 years of change.

 

    Some are just hysterical and alarmed........others not so much.

 

I didn't realize that modern man existed 200 millenia ago .....Oh, you're talking about  hunter-gatherer hominids, not someone capable of starting a chain saw to denude the forests of South America and Indonesia.........then there's the fact that even 200 years ago,  there were only a billion humans populating the earth, much easier to find food, whether you gather it or hunt it.   Today there a 7 billion souls sucking up oxygen..........Now imagine what would happen if our agricultural centers were inundated, transportation disrupted, potable water sources gone............disease and starvation would flourish, the die-off would be immense.

 

But relax.........long before the seas engulf the land, some disease now festering in a fetid African swamp will erupt worldwide, or food shortages will pit neighbor against neighor.........even today, there is a struggle for adequate water, fortunately, the struggle takes place in the courtroom, but soon enough if will be in the streets.

---

   Terrified of change band?....lol....and no, I am not referring to hominids.  Full anatomical humans "modern humans" have 

   been around for 200 000 years.  The genius homo has been around for 2 million years.....and survived change.

I covered that Sig "ice that is on land mass" 🙂

The war we are heading, in a few tens of thousands of years  we will have another ice age so if humanity is still around then they better create lots of CO2 🙂

Have you considered that the reduction in crop could be due to the depletion of the nutrients in the soil that has been farmed for generations?

Think of the soil as a battery it will go flat if you don't charge it .

Basic science.................again

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@chameleon54 wrote:

---

@siggie-reported-by-alarmists wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

My family has farmed crops and sheep in very marginal ( goyders line ) country for several generations. In the 1930,s-50,s my uncles always religiously had the ground prepared and crops sown by anzac day. Now we are very lucky if we have had the opening rains by Anzac day. Growing season rainfall appears to be falling and seasons are cutting off quicker than in the past. Our long term average grain yields where 8 bags to the acre ( old language ) and are now 6 bags to the acre and falling. The really scary thing is this is with huge advances in grain technology such as legume and canola break crops, zero tillage, ( not turning the soil to expose it to drying atmosphere ) ,stubble retention ( mulching ) , spraying of summer weeds to reduce their use of sub soil moisture etc. etc. Without these technological advances our grain yields would be further reduced.

 

On the sheep front our carrying capacity has halved in thirty years from one sheep to the uncropped acre, to one sheep to two uncropped acres. When I was a child we used to have huge clover crops. Old 8 mm. family films show me and my siblings struggling through them to collect wild mushrooms ( now gone ) . The last big clover year was thirty five years ago, when I left school. We spent the hot summer carting tens of thousands of bales of clover hay and made huge stacks the size of industrial sheds. ( the remains of one of these are still there.) It makes me cry to think of the work that went into that stack and to see it rotting away.

 

Clovers have completely dissappeared from many farms and the native pine and mallee trees on the sides of the road are showing the effects of drying conditions, with the crown of the mallee being a skeleton of sticks, with leaves concentrated lower down the branches as the trees shrink in size to cope with harsher conditions.

 

I have been a keen student of nature all of my life and can see gradual changes taking place. As this is some of the most marginal farming country, a keen observer will notice changes here first.

 

I also own a small property in high rainfall country. Some of the neighbors who have lived in the area for generations are seeing changes in the dates that springs and small creeks begin to flow each season.

 

Sorry folks, it aint a scientists theory based on computer models that we can argue over. Its already happening on a large scale NOW  !!!!

 

 

---

What is happening large scale now?

---

I wouldnt be so bold as to enter the argument on the theoretical, computer based modeling that most here are basing their discussions on. While I follow that debate with interest, my only real knowlege and expertise is at the enviromental fringes of productive agriculture where the effects of climate change will be noticed first.

 

Whats happening now ???

 

I left the area that I grew up in, partly because the decreases in productivity we are seeing meant my business was no longer viable. I retained a family farm in the area and still work on this property regularly. 

 

Many of the remaining farmers are struggling to adapt to the changes. Modern farming systems and computer controlled equipment are now essential to grow any sort of crop at all, and this technology is slowing, and to a point hiding some of the effects of climate change. One of the essential tools is computer GPS controlled steering systems. The previous years stubble is left standing and the new crop is sown between the rows of the old crop. This shades the new seedlings and protects the soil from exposure to the sun. Advanced farmers are trialling which direction to sow, to alighn crops with the arc of the sun. In winter the sun shines on the siol, but as the suns arc is changed in spring and summer, the crop is shaded by last years stubble.

 

The technologies are expensive and have seen most smaller farmers driven from the land to be replaced by a handfull of larger family farmers who buy the equipement and run the machines 24 hours a day. ( these farmers carry substantial debts, often in seven figure sums. )

 

Livestock is becoming extinct in the districts as the stubble ( crop residue ) needs to be retained for the new crops protection. As all summer weeds are sprayed there is little feed available to stock from summer rains. As rainfall becomes less during the traditional growing season, legumes and canola break crops become unviable meaning grains are the only option.  Basically it is becoming a mono-culture system of farming, reliant on a few crops and high technology. 

 

This isnt some scary future armagedon movie. This is happening right now in marginal farming districts all around Australia.

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I have highlighted some of your own words for you. 

Your location says a lot to me.