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on 15-05-2020 08:39 AM
Coronavirus update: Global COVID-19 death toll passes 300,000, US-China trade deal in doubt as Trump lashes out
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15-05-2020 11:24 AM - edited 15-05-2020 11:26 AM
@rogevibe wrote:
@*kazumi* wrote:
@rogevibe wrote:and now south of the border we have " ruby princess abattoirs "
It's totally ridiculous to compare the abattoirs to Ruby Princess; by the time the ship docked, it was well understood that the virus spreads on these ships infecting much higher percentage than in other circumstances. It was also known that they have number of sick passengers aboard, some diagnosed with COVID19.
The abattoirs was a different story, as the 1st guy diagnosed was not actually working at that time due to injury, so there was no reason to suspect it originated there. Unfortunately, about 4 out of 5 infectious people are asymptomatic. Ongoing testing large number of people is the only way to isolate clusters early. Thankfully, our Victorian government is doing that, while cautiously moving to relaxing restrictions.
By the way, my daughter got tested last week and was told that she tested "negative for COVID 19, as well as flu, and other common viruses".
By the time of awakening regarding the abattoir blight we should have known better the need for pre-emptive mitigation for a closed worker warm sweaty working environment dealing with animals who have ACE2 proteins.
I think this subject was discussed some time ago here...
The only pre-emptive mitigation would be closing down all abattoirs. There were guidelines given, it is possible that these were not adhered to in Cedarmeats. If you think that in boning room is a "warm environment" you obviously never been in meat processing plant; it's freezing! Although cold is probably what makes the virus survive longer. Heat kills it. But anywhere, in any working environment COVID19 will spread if infected person works there. The 1.5m will not work if the infected person spends 8 hours in the space, moves around and the virus just floats in the air.
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on 15-05-2020 12:03 PM
maybe i'm obsessed because she is the only sate premier who has actually caused deaths australia wide by spreading the virus from her state?
From your posts it looks like you are blaming Gladys for South Australians returning to SA, Tasmanian’s returning to Tasmania etc etc.
I wonder how you would feel if that cruise ship, yes it was a cruise ship and not a NSW ship, had docked in SA and the passengers were allowed to return to their home states. I’m not saying that mistakes weren’t made, but it did dock at a time when restrictions and mandatory quarantine were not as strict.
It’s not like Gladys deliberately sent infected NSW residents to other states. That is how your rants posts about Gladys are coming across.
Blame the returning South Australians for any spread in South Australia from the Ruby Princess, blame returning Queenslanders for any spread in Queensland from the Ruby Princess etc etc.
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on 15-05-2020 12:09 PM
@cezm wrote:If you use FB this was an interesting interview re Sweden
https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/videos/2533122846939188/
The Interview: Dr. Anders TegnellDr. Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s lead epidemiologist, unpacks his country’s approach to handling the coronavirus and Stockholm’s path to herd immunity.
To develop herd immunity will be very costly in terms of lives and then caring for chronically ill people who survive. Sweden is now in much worse position than the European countries that shut down.
France also wanted to develop herd immunity:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france-immunity/only-4-4-of-french-population-i...
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on 15-05-2020 01:53 PM
Would you like a virus with that?
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on 15-05-2020 02:04 PM
@*kazumi* wrote:
@rogevibe wrote:
@*kazumi* wrote:
@rogevibe wrote:and now south of the border we have " ruby princess abattoirs "
It's totally ridiculous to compare the abattoirs to Ruby Princess; by the time the ship docked, it was well understood that the virus spreads on these ships infecting much higher percentage than in other circumstances. It was also known that they have number of sick passengers aboard, some diagnosed with COVID19.
The abattoirs was a different story, as the 1st guy diagnosed was not actually working at that time due to injury, so there was no reason to suspect it originated there. Unfortunately, about 4 out of 5 infectious people are asymptomatic. Ongoing testing large number of people is the only way to isolate clusters early. Thankfully, our Victorian government is doing that, while cautiously moving to relaxing restrictions.
By the way, my daughter got tested last week and was told that she tested "negative for COVID 19, as well as flu, and other common viruses".
By the time of awakening regarding the abattoir blight we should have known better the need for pre-emptive mitigation for a closed worker warm sweaty working environment dealing with animals who have ACE2 proteins.
I think this subject was discussed some time ago here...
The only pre-emptive mitigation would be closing down all abattoirs. There were guidelines given, it is possible that these were not adhered to in Cedarmeats. If you think that in boning room is a "warm environment" you obviously never been in meat processing plant; it's freezing! Although cold is probably what makes the virus survive longer. Heat kills it. But anywhere, in any working environment COVID19 will spread if infected person works there. The 1.5m will not work if the infected person spends 8 hours in the space, moves around and the virus just floats in the air.
no , just daily lab testing of all staff for SARS-CoV-2 , the actual virus
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on 15-05-2020 02:16 PM
@*kazumi* wrote:
@cezm wrote:If you use FB this was an interesting interview re Sweden
https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/videos/2533122846939188/
The Interview: Dr. Anders TegnellDr. Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s lead epidemiologist, unpacks his country’s approach to handling the coronavirus and Stockholm’s path to herd immunity.
To develop herd immunity will be very costly in terms of lives and then caring for chronically ill people who survive. Sweden is now in much worse position than the European countries that shut down.
France also wanted to develop herd immunity:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france-immunity/only-4-4-of-french-population-i...
for many one does not recover and life goes on , like the flu or cold, there are ongoing health issues - also more or more complications are being observed , the latest being a tendency to be prone to strokes of the brain - so the only real course of action at this time is national quarantine with national 100% eradication - which we are achieving , , then we can resume international two way travel with likewise other countries , next candidate being New Zealand
As for the rest of the world ..... they need to regionally quarantine and eradicate therein ( isolate and burn out) , resume the regional economy , then extend to likewise neighbouring regions
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on 15-05-2020 05:20 PM
@rogevibe wrote:
no , just daily lab testing of all staff for SARS-CoV-2 , the actual virus
To totally shut down would mean no food and NO toilet paper, no eBay deliveries.
Meat processing plants are not the only places that would need to be tested. Testing them all daily is NOT feasible; there is not enough of tests, labs or personnel. But even if there was, people go to work on public transport; get there are swabbed, few days later the test comes back positive...... what about all the people on the train, bus, in the shop that the person interacted with in meanwhile? And then there are false negatives and false positives................. Totally eradicating COVID19 is just not going to happen without everybody being boarded up in their place of residence as they did to people in the time of plague, and in Wuhan for 3 months. And by the way, in Wuhan they only started to relax the restrictions few weeks ago, and now have new cases, and might be closing the whole place down again. This is not going to get under control until we have a vaccine, and treatment would be also helpful. And then we have to hope the antivaxers will not manage to persuade too many people that the vaccine is bad for you.
In meanwhile in Australia people are apparently having serious mental problems because of the restrictions.
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15-05-2020 05:33 PM - edited 15-05-2020 05:35 PM
@*kazumi* wrote:
@rogevibe wrote:
no , just daily lab testing of all staff for SARS-CoV-2 , the actual virus
To totally shut down would mean no food and NO toilet paper, no eBay deliveries.
Meat processing plants are not the only places that would need to be tested. Testing them all daily is NOT feasible; there is not enough of tests, labs or personnel. But even if there was, people go to work on public transport; get there are swabbed, few days later the test comes back positive...... what about all the people on the train, bus, in the shop that the person interacted with in meanwhile? And then there are false negatives and false positives................. Totally eradicating COVID19 is just not going to happen without everybody being boarded up in their place of residence as they did to people in the time of plague, and in Wuhan for 3 months. And by the way, in Wuhan they only started to relax the restrictions few weeks ago, and now have new cases, and might be closing the whole place down again. This is not going to get under control until we have a vaccine, and treatment would be also helpful. And then we have to hope the antivaxers will not manage to persuade too many people that the vaccine is bad for you.
In meanwhile in Australia people are apparently having serious mental problems because of the restrictions.
Shut down logically means isolation enough while taking precautions to ensure the supply chain and home based work and essential services and so to have the virus die out -I wonder at the mental health concerns - as most here live restricted live's anyhow and know that is only for a short time as clearly becoming under control - the mental health crisis is more the overseas experience whereby due to different national temperaments a 1% increase in unemployment means so many more suicides by the thousands
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on 15-05-2020 10:11 PM
Could be a test case for prisons. If a 6 week lockdown at home drives you nuts, what about 5-10 in jail?