---

@joethenuts wrote:

mmmmmm    sellers compaining about money back to the buyers   instead of complaining does somebody out there have an answere when a buyer does not get there article , is this new policy put out there because buyers were complaining they were not getting there parcels [  i agree if your parcel has tracking  you shoukd not get a defect point   sending letters   just close your eyes = not good enough you know aus post loose thousands of letters a year  just read the papers some letters are taking 4 weeks to go 100 miles away      [   come on guys what is the answere buyers cant have it all there way either can sellers has anyone got an answere ]

---

It is actually possible for a seller to send parcels and close their eyes (I have skimmed the posts in this thread, sorry if I'm repeating things).

Consider these two, very possible, scenarios.

Scenario 1 - Seller posts an item, the package has full tracking, requires signature on delivery, it's addressed according to the delivery address provided by the buyer. Australia Post mark it as delivered to that address, but the buyer says they never got it and opens an eBay case. The buyer is telling the truth, and it's Australia Post who has made a mistake. 

It won't matter to eBay or PayPal that the buyer didn't get the item, the seller will not be held financially accountable (by eBay, or PayPal) won't have to refund the buyer. The buyer may or may not get a refund from ebay, they almost certainly wouldn't get one from PayPal, and the fact remains that the buyer did not get their item, but if they don't receive a discretionary refund from eBay, they are completely out of luck unless the seller voluntarily refunds or replaces. (As a sidenote, the seller won't get a defect regardless of whether they decide to assist the buyer, and/or refund them, in fact the seller is perfectly safe from ebay / PayPal even if they point-blank refuse to even try to help). 

Scenario 2 - seller uses click and send to post an article, to the correct address, and gets proof of lodgement, the article is never delivered to the buyer, but this time the tracking information shows that it was never delivered. eBay probably will refund the buyer if they opened an MBG case, probably from the seller's funds unless the seller successfully contests the decision, but PayPal won't.

In fact, PayPal specifically state that a buyer is ineligible for protection (against INR) if the seller has proof of postage - delivery (that is, the buyer actually receiving the item) is wholly irrelevant. 

The fact is, these policies aren't as much about buyer's not getting their items as they are about sellers not sending items, despite the more stringent expectations / policies eBay's Money Back Guarantee creates - that can clearly be shown by the fact that it doesn't matter if a buyer doesn't actually get their item, what really matters is whether a seller can show evidence they can't be blamed for the buyer not getting their item. (More so in the case of PayPal's policies than eBay's, obviously, but it's interesting to note that so far, and as far as I know, eBay seem to have caved every time someone's called them out on their proof of delivery requirement).

One of the things this also highlights is that all of that - the policies, the legalities etc - is a separate issue to what someone feels is a moral and/or ethical obligation to a buyer.