Damaged goods

adam462011
Community Member
I recently purchased an item from the US which arrived broken in two pieces.  It is obviously no good to me now - I buy to resell.  I contacted the seller and offered to send pictures of the damaged item.  He emailed me back to say, "Don't bother sending pictures.  The item is over 70 years old", and therefore I should expect such things to happen and that he would "be happy" to pay back half the costs of my purchase so that we both don't suffer.  Well, I'm the one that suffers - I get half the money back on something I can't resell.  Can he legitimately make such an offer.  Yours sincerely P----- OFF!
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Damaged goods

flotsam-jetsom
Community Member
So long as you paid with paypal you can open INAD and you will get a full refund, but you will of course have to return the item at your expense. Maybe worth looking into the half refund as it may well work out the same monetry loss
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Damaged goods

If the breakage is something sharp, then PayPal will often not require it to be returned as it's considered dangerous.
And you can mention that in opening the case. 😉
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Damaged goods

Take it to the PO and ask they deem it too sharp for the post can they give you a letter to fax to paypal to verify this then you will get a full refund without returning it.
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Damaged goods

 
He emailed me back to say, "Don't bother sending pictures.  The item is over 70 years old", and therefore I should expect such things to happen !


I would personally take issue with that. Things don't break just because they're old - age can make them a little more fragile, but things break if they're packaged and/or handled poorly.

If I had an antique on my shelf that spontaneously combusted, I don't think anyone would say, oh well, it's to be expected, it was pretty old... :8}

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Damaged goods

oh well, it's to be expected, it was pretty old...

pretty awesome to see though :^O
_________________________________________________________

You can't please all the people all the time, so now I just please myself


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Damaged goods

PayPal Australia does not cover you for items damaged in transit, because here in Australia, an item damaged in transit, for the purposes of the relevant legislation, doesn’t falls within the definition of Significantly Not As Described.  This is the reason why, whereas in some countries (eg the UK), the PayPal User Agreement makes specific mention of items damaged is transit as falling within the definition of Significantly Not As Described for the purposes of that agreement, whereas in other agreements, such as the Australian agreement, it has been omitted.  If you don’t agree look, for yourselves.

 

In any event, when it comes to items damaged in the post, the first step is to take the item and packaging back to Aust and lodge a claim for an item damaged in transit.  Now if they agree the packaging was adequate they will compensate and its problem solved.  If they consider the packaging is inadequate, they will reject.  But you need a decision one way or the other to prove seller negligence.

 

Now if Aust post reject the claim, your options are pretty much determined by the user agreement pertaining to the site on which the item was listed, which in this case in all probability is the US site, and if it was the US site, then you may qualify for buyer protection on that site. 

 

That is it, is my understanding that, when it comes to the US site, it is eBay and not PayPal who provide the buyer protection.  Therefore I think you would need to contact online help for that site for advice, as to whether you qualify for protection, and if so, how to go about accessing it.

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Damaged goods


Open a paypal claim for item not as described - don't even get into whether the item was broken in transit, you have no way of knowing that.



The seller could have dropped it as they were packaging it, who knows. Regardless, it has been received as not as described.



I suggest uploading clear pictures of the item to your claim, and note in the claim description you are seeking not to ship goods back to seller due to sharp edges of this item and that there are stringent, additional post requirements that add significant costs to return this item to seller (far in excess of usual post lodgement requirements).



If a dispute and claim is opened the seller might even change their mind and refund you in full.  



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Damaged goods

Yes I guess the buyer could do as you suggest.


 


But hang on a minute, does not the relevant legislation say, delivery to the buyer is deemed to have been complete when the item has been handed to the carrier.  That is delivery to the carrier has the same legal effect as if the item had been handed to the buyer.


 


Now if you accept the above is the correct legal standing of the parties when it comes to the definition of when the item is said to have been delivered, then you must accept that if it’s damaged after it has been handed over to the carrier, this means it was damaged after it was delivered. I only say this because this is the legal concept as it was explained to me when I undertook the Commercial Law component of my course in Business Studies, but what the heck, what do they know.


 


So what will you say to the buyer when they say, “I took your advice and simply binned the item and packaging and instead of claiming compensation from Aust Post I lodged a PayPal Item Significantly Not As Described claim only to told, as the seller has disputed the claim, your claim has been refused because PayPal agrees with the seller interpretation that damaged items do not within PayPal Buyer Protection of the Australian User agreement, and as such they recommended I lodge a claim with Aust Post. Unfortunately, as I had already, on your advice, disposed of both the packaging and the item, Aust post is now telling me they can’t/won’t consider my claim.  As for the seller they are telling me, we can’t assist you further.


 


So let’s look at the alternative.  Buyer sends e-mail to seller advising item arrived broken and they will take it to the post office tomorrow and lodge a claim, and requesting (note the word requesting) advice as to the seller attitude should the claim be denied on the grounds of inadequate packaging; to which my response would be, “once you have lodged the claim, simply assign your compensation rights to me, and once Australia Post confirms that has been done, I’ll reimburse you the cost of the claim”.  Rationale, if Aust Post accepts the claim I get the compensation.  If they reject it, I can always fight the decision, either with the ombudsmen or in the small claims court and I already have the necessary blank forms on file.  All I need to do is fill in the blanks.


 


So let’s get back on topic.  The first thing this buyer should do is take the item and packaging to Aust Post and lodge a claim and if the claim is accepted that is the end of matter excepting for feedback, and as the seller has already indicated they are not prepared to assist, neutral or negative feedback is warranted, with my leaning being towards negative.


 


Now, if Aust Post refuse the claim, as the item was in all likelihood purchased from a listing on the US site, the buyer may well be entitled to be compensated vide eBay USA under their Buyer Protection policy, but they need to get on to the US site live help to find out if they qualify or not.


 


Finally, if Aust post say no, and eBay US say no, then the only further advice I can give this buyer is, you, the buyer, own the goods being transported.  Therefore it’s you who is at risk if the item is lost or damaged in transit.  So if you want to mitigate you risk, insure the item; and the PayPal User agreement clearly sates Buyer Protection is not a policy of insurance. 


 


 As for “The seller could have dropped it as they were packaging it, who knows. Regardless, it has been received as not as described” this statement itself demonstrates such a fundamental lack of understanding  of the legal principles involved, as not to be worthy of further comment, excepting to say buy yourself a good legal reference book, and look up the chapter headed Sale of Goods and then find out the meaning of words such as specific goods,  delivery, receipt, risk and recovery, as it is how these words are actually defined, and not how you think they should be defined, which determines what rights the buyer actually has.

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Damaged goods

So if you want to mitigate you risk, insure the item;



But you can't insure against inadequate packaging can you? AP won't anyway. If the seller didn't adequately package the item I can't imagine the carrier being held responsible for any damage received in transit.

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