Ebay/Paypal infringing consumer rights laws?

[jd20005]

On a recent transaction on Ebay I ordered a phone housing from a seller in the UK. When this item arrived it was damaged. I told the seller about the damage and he said I needed to return the item for a refund/exchange. Fair enough, but the return postage plus tracking that I have read that Paypal require in order to refund is going to cost just as much as I paid for the item. I'm pretty upset about this as it's not my fault the item is damaged and not fit for purpose. Anyways, I have been reading up on Australian Consumer Law and Uk consumer Distance Selling Regulations and both say that the seller should pay for return postage for a faulty item. So why have I read in other threads on the internet Paypal says that buyers should pay for return postage? Doesn't this infringe consumer rights? Also the seller said, after I had opened a not as described dispute with paypal, that he would only pay for return shipping if a complaint wasn't opened, which was funny since they never mentioned it before I opened a dispute. Surely just opening a legitimate dispute can't be grounds for a supplier not paying return postage?

[foxette-in-sox]

All you need to do is contact Paypal & make them aware that the cost of returning the item is cost prohibitive & they should give you a discretionary refund.

No need to get bogged down in laws of any description from any country-just make one phonecall.

[***super_nova***]

PP cannot judge condition of an item they do not see, that is why it is their policy that each party pays for postage one way.

if you are dealing with business, you could lodge complaint with the appropriate Consumer Law Department, but it is far easier to do as the Fox says 🙂

[putney32]

if you buy something at Target, get home and find its damaged in the box, you have to take it back to Target for a refund/exchange.

they will not pay your bus fare or your taxi fare or your petrol.  it is up to you, the consumer, to return to point of purchase for a refund/exchange.

[colkym]

Have you tried taking a photo of the damage and sending it to the seller???  Maybe if he can see you arent trying to scam a freebie, he may be a little more charitable?

[digital*ghost]

This is from the Consumer Affairs Victoria website, which I found only after a very quick look, and for obvious reasons I can't say if it applies to other states, or which policies should take precedence when dealing with a cross-border transaction, but it will at least give some insight into some of the consumer laws regarding online sales and problems that occur, as well as provide a starting point to look for more information.

Returning goods to the seller
When you return goods to a seller, you must pay postage or shipping costs.

The seller must outline how much it will cost you to return the goods. You can then choose whether to pay the return costs, or keep the goods.

If you cannot easily return the goods to the seller, or return costs are significant – for example, if you were returning a wide screen TV or bed – the seller must pay for postage or collect the goods themselves. However, this only applies to goods with a major fault.

Once the seller has the goods, they will assess the fault and provide you with the appropriate remedy. If the goods have a major or minor fault, you have the right to recover the return costs in the form of compensation from the seller. If you have not paid return costs already and the goods are faulty, the seller should waive these costs.

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/shopping/refunds-and-returns/online-purchases

Judging from that, PayPal aren't infringing any rights, as according to the above you would have to pay first, but still have a right to pursue a refund of return costs - at least domestically. 

As an aside, one thing I would like to know but have as yet been able to confirm one way or another, is if someone buys something online and pays P&H, and it's faulty, is there a legal right to a refund of the original P&H? To be clear, I'm not asking because I don't think a full refund should be issued, but it's a service that is separate from the item and was at least provided, so I was wondering if full refund of the original payment (including any separate P&H charges) is a compromise for what would be involved in issuing item price refunds and then the buyer having to chase the seller up for any return costs. 

[jd20005]

Yes I have sent pictures of the damage and even asked the seller to send out a replacement part for the damaged part (without which the whole lot of parts is worthless as they all fit together) and the seller refused.

[jd20005]

Well the seller is actually a UK business so operating under the UK laws of selling online specifically the distance selling regulations which are quite specific:

Refunds

On the cancellation of a contract, any sum paid by the consumer must be repaid as soon as possible and, in any case, within 30 days of cancellation. The full price paid for the goods must be refunded and this includes the cost of delivery of the goods to the consumer.  In certain circumstances the supplier may charge the consumer for the cost of the supplier recovering the goods (e.g. where the consumer fails to return them).  To do so, the contract must specify that the consumer is under an obligation to return the goods if he or she cancels the contract and the consumer gets notice of this in advance as part of the written confirmation relating to the right to cancel. The costs cannot be passed on to the consumer where the goods are returned because they are faulty or do not comply with the contract for some other reason.

But going by what you have submitted above for Victoria,it's a bit ambiguous, it says consumer must pay return shipping costs but that if the item is faulty and return shipping has not yet been paid then the seller should waive the return costs. I think the first bit is referring to items being returned due to buyers remorse because obviously you wouldn't want to keep faulty goods.

I have told the seller I am cancelling the transaction under the UK distance selling regulations as the item is damaged and not fit for purpose. No reply 😞

[lyndal1838]

You are buying on ebay and paying with paypal....those are the only rules that matter.

And you cannot just cancel the transaction. Only the seller can do that.

[digital*ghost]

But going by what you have submitted above for Victoria,it's a bit ambiguous, it says consumer must pay return shipping costs but that if the item is faulty and return shipping has not yet been paid then the seller should waive the return costs. I think the first bit is referring to items being returned due to buyers remorse because obviously you wouldn't want to keep faulty goods.

It might seem a bit ambiguous, but you can see by the line: Once the seller has the goods, they will assess the fault that it's referring to the return of faulty goods.

This: If you have not paid return costs already and the goods are faulty, the seller should waive these costs would apply in situations where costs are incurred to return the item to the seller, but were not paid up front by the buyer, and 'waive these costs' would probably be referring to when any refund due is calculated and issued, or rather, making clear the seller shouldn't try and recover those costs at a later date. 

But it's all rather moot in this circumstance, because if I'm not mistaken, the Distance Selling Regulations are specifically to protect UK / EU consumers, and aren't enforceable by an Australian buyer - in other words, as an Australian buyer you don't actually qualify UK consumer rights.