Suspect "deceased estate" lots staged and most bidders are really gullible.

[ekrabappel]

Have been checking out some of the listings for deceased estate lots and reckon a large majority of them are 'staged' and are designed to prey on naive punters.

I started collecting coins last year and often browse the E-bay listings including the so called "deceased estate" lots.  Something just doesn't sit right with these.

They will typically include an eclectic mix of items. That in itself is bizarre.  The items are rarely listed or photographed individually and the focus is always just off or the image low quality so you can't zoom in on specific items.  There is often a box or tin of pennies or some odd pennies scattered about to give an 'old' feeling about the items.  You can never see what coins are under the top coins and the top coins are usually QEII so quite recent. The contents of the box are never emptied and photographed.

I reckon these lots are the leftover **bleep** from purchased deceased estates once the dealer has removed anything worthwhile.  Each lot is not from an individual estate but rather the cumulated garbage from lots of deceased estate purchases that the dealer has carefully divided into portions and "arranged" them to look like that is how they were found in some old biddies attic.  Each lot is salted with cheap pennies or other coins to give the feel the dealer wants. The lots are then set out on the line (E-Bay) waiting for the gullible buyer to bite. 

And yet it still amazes me the large sums of  money people spend on these lots.  In most cases a look at the feedback will show this person is a dealer and do the buyers really think they won't go through the contents and remove anything valuable before listing? I guarantee there'll be no 1930 pennies hidden under that 1964 QEII penny! Do the buyers really think a seller will list a lot with valuable hidden items with a risk it could get sold for $5?  

Would love to know if any readers have purchased 'deceased estate' lots from dealers on Ebay and what you thought.

[tazzieterror]

Like with any eBay purchases, seek further information and photos from the seller if you are uncertain about contents, condition, etc.

No doubt there are sellers who take advantage like you say, but it also makes sense that there are also those who simply have many items to clear, and don't have the inclination (or financial incentive) to list or photograph items separately.

[joztamps]

There's one stamp dealer on here who sells c.80,000-100,000 lots p.a. (that's lots, not stamps - it may be c.1 million actual stamps).

The majority of them are headed "ESTATE" followed by some other generic non-description.

I think it's fairly obvious that he obtains his stock by touring round the country knocking off unsuspecting stamp collectors.

So just a word of warning for philatelists; if any stranger pretends to be a stamp collector, run for your life.

[ekrabappel]

Tazzieterror - Am sure there are honest people out there but the synical side of me says that most dealers are clearing out the garbage in a sneaky manner. No financial incentive? With lots going for between $40-100 I'd say that's pretty good financial incentive to set the stage for selling unwanted trash. 

Certainly in America the practice of putting wheat pennies into rolls (often with a semi-valuable coin visible at the end) and selling them as "unsearched" rolls with the occassional "from deceased estate" thrown is quite common on E-Bay and is seen by the coin collecting community as a way for dealers to get a price way above what is in effect scrap copper.  

[tazzieterror]

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@ekrabappel wrote:

Tazzieterror - Am sure there are honest people out there but the synical side of me says that most dealers are clearing out the garbage in a sneaky manner. No financial incentive? With lots going for between $40-100 I'd say that's pretty good financial incentive to set the stage for selling unwanted trash. 

Certainly in America the practice of putting wheat pennies into rolls (often with a semi-valuable coin visible at the end) and selling them as "unsearched" rolls with the occassional "from deceased estate" thrown is quite common on E-Bay and is seen by the coin collecting community as a way for dealers to get a price way above what is in effect scrap copper.  

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You haven't read my reply properly. i.e.

"..that there are also those who simply have many items to clear, and don't have the inclination (or financial incentive) to list or photograph items separately."

I'm saying a genuine seller with a lot of stuff to sell might not have the financial incentive to create separate listings and photographs for individual items, hence why they throw it all into a single lot. The existence of lots in and of itself is not evidence of deceitful intent.  

But if you want to eliminate doubt, message the seller asking for further information or photos - it's not difficult.

[ekrabappel]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

I'm saying a genuine seller with a lot of stuff to sell might not have the financial incentive to create separate listings and photographs for individual items, hence why they throw it all into a single lot. The existence of lots in and of itself is not evidence of deceitful intent.  

But if you want to eliminate doubt, message the seller asking for further information or photos - it's not difficult.

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LOL - and there's the answer.  A seller who know's there is nothing of real value in a lot and doesn't want to spend the time listing or photographing individual items is not going to do so at the request of a potential buyer who probably won't place a bid once they know there is nothing worthwhile. Does it really take that much time to empty out the container of coins, photgraph them as a lot and put them back in? I mean the contents were already emptied when the dealer searched for valuable coins.

I wouldn't bother asking because I know they wouldn't bother.

[tazzieterror]

Seems you know it all already. I won't waste your time any further.

[wide-world-of-stamps]

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@joztamps wrote:

There's one stamp dealer on here who sells c.80,000-100,000 lots p.a. (that's lots, not stamps - it may be c.1 million actual stamps).

The majority of them are headed "ESTATE" followed by some other generic non-description.

I think it's fairly obvious that he obtains his stock by touring round the country knocking off unsuspecting stamp collectors.

So just a word of warning for philatelists; if any stranger pretends to be a stamp collector, run for your life.

---

The same seller who claims boxes of albums and assorted stamps are unchecked, unsorted, as received, etc, with a couple of slightly higher value stamps on top.

They also sell at quite high prices, and would also have the valuable items picked out.

[11dustyattic]

This is quite an interesting topic. Well done for that, nice change from the location misrepresentation topics 😁

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, a seller can advertise their items however they like, provided they're not making false statements about the items. Junk drawer lots have always fascinated me. I used to browse them on the American & UK sites. Not everyone, myself included, has knowledge of all things. You shouldn't just assume they know a valuable coin or stamp, from a non valuable one. Coins might be easier to research but errors are much harder for the layperson to spot. Stamps similarly with all the different watermarks, inverted, errors, cancelled/not cancelled. Both I know nothing about so can give my perspective based on the fact that I would generally list whole stamp albums together. Yes I could potentially get ripped off but it's simply not my area of expertise. The same with coins, yes I would research each one, however coin dealers I imagine make a tidy sum from picking up errors or variations.

You assume the items have originally been bought from a deceased estate, and then fleeced. My 'junk' lol accumulates over time. Small treasures that turn up in other things, coins, jewellery, badges, medals, and all kinds of other small 'treasure' type items. I don't buy them in big lots and just put them into boxes to be looked at at a later date. I agree there is a percentage that I'm pretty sure isn't worth much, to me at least, but the things I never have time to educate myself on (ie stamps) would just get thrown into a junk drawer lot.

It has been suggested you should ask the seller if you want to know exactly what coins are in there. I agree with that. Keep in mind not everyone collects one thing, some people just like mixed treasure to display. I do. I collect whatever passes through my house at the time,  changes frequently. 

There is a certain excitement with 'unboxing' bulk unknown items. I think the seller is capitalising on that, and good for them. That's good marketing, good business. If the coin identification is what you require, then the onus is on you to ask. Specifically for these kind of lots I mean. 

Also remember auctions can be fun and the bidding can go up simply because 2 people want a particular thing they see. It can be as simple as that.

Anyway you have to admit these kind of auctions are fun

[maranock]

I'm sure there are lots of people like me. My mother is a stamp collector and when she passes I will just be throwing things in lots not caring whet they are becuase I have no interest in them so I won't be taking individual photos of things - people can bid on the lot or move on. With a household of stuff I am not going to bother with sorting things and finding out what might have value or not, it all goes in together.

I know there are professionals to buy up estates to sort and sell, but there are also those like me who just want the stuff gone with the least amount of trouble possible.