What's the catch?

[springyzone]

My sister has come across something I believe is probably a scam but I am not sure how it works and wonder if anyone could enlighten me.

Here is what happened. My sister is after a new thermomix TM5. For anyone who doesn't know about these things, they are a kitchen appliance and sell at $2089 new.

Even second hand ones on ebay tend to ask $1800 plus.

So... a few days back, my sister saw an ad for a brand new thermie for about $723 and that included express post. The ad was by a seller only registered a couple of days before and zero feedback of course. Just after she read the ad, she noticed it had sold.

She was very disappointed and kicking herself for not being quicker, but I said i smelt a rat.

Had a look at the ad, it was a complete cut and paste from similar sellers from Spain. Even promised an English electroic cookbook for an extra $30 if seller wanted. Odd for a newbie private seller to be able to provide extras on call or alternatively, not to have included it in the sale.

But here's the rub. My sister looked up completed listings and has come across a few other sales pretty well identical to this. All different names, all zero rated new sellers, sometimes even from different states, all identical ads. all sold their thermie but never any feedback on any of them.

I have told my sister not to bid in a pink fit on any if they come up as something is going on.

But what? If a person pays via paypal, you would think they would be covered.

I still would never bid and don't want my sister to, but what scam exactly are these sellers (or this seller) working?

[digital*ghost]

---

@springyzone wrote:

If a person pays via paypal, you would think they would be covered.

---

At least initially, PayPal seem to be basing eligibility for buyer protection on the category of the item, rather than the item itself. There's been a couple of instances mentioned where a buyer lost their case because even though the item was eligible for protection, it was listed in a category that isn't, so that's one thing to look out for.

I'd be surprised if the payments aren't being subjected to holds, though, so the seller(s) probably wouldn't be getting too much out of it, and info farming exercises tend to be for lower value items where they can sell a high volume in a relatively short period, so not really sure what they pay-off is.

[go-tazz]

There are eight of those scam listings that went through to completed.

They have all being reported and some of those scammers are NARU'd already.

Paypal does generally have to do the refunds,(all sales from NARU'd members should be returned

automatically).

They only need one to get past the system and they can claim $600 plus.

The added bonus is that they get access to the buyers Email address,(which they can then use to send a

phishing Email to or state that something went wrong and they need to repay into another account).

Scammers work it so that only the gullible "buy" their products so they have different avenues of trying to take

advantage of that.

[*tippy*toes*]

Like the Chinese scammers, they depend on low feedback buyers buying from them because most low feedback buyers don't know they can open a dispute to get their money back. They write it off as a bad experience (and often don't learn from it and end up buying another scam item). If a scammer sells 100 scam items, I reckon at least 40 of them wouldn't know they could get their money back.

If you keep an eye on that seller, you'll see the negs start to rack up over the next few weeks and when they get to -4 or 5, ebay with NARU them. At least one of those negs will say scammer and I've lost my money. Thanks to ebay making buyers anonymous, people who see these people getting into strife can't contact them to let them know they can in fact get their money back. of course ebay won't contact them.

I really hope your sister doesn't fall for one of these scams. If it looks too good to be true, then it is. No way would someone sell a brand new item worth $2000 for $700. Not in a million years. Especially as you say the second hand ones are selling for $1800.

If these sellers are in Australia, there's a reasonable chance they will offer direct deposit too. They may even go so far as to say their PayPal isn't working and to deposit the money into their account. The buyers who fall for that will definitely lose their money and the scammer rakes it in. When their account gets closed down, they'll create a new one and start the cycle again. They make a lot of money out of these fake listings and it's definitely worth their while to continue doing it.

[springyzone]

Thanks for the replies.

Tazz, I am most impressed, I was able to find a couple of the other listings but have no idea how to tell if they have been reported or not and did not realise any of the sellers had been struck off (which is what NARU means?).

I am surprised none of them got a neg.

What really rang alarm bells for me (apart from price/new seller etc) was there was no option for pick up, which a newbie would surely prefer on such a bulky item.

[*tippy*toes*]

They won't offer pick up because the item doesn't exist. The last thing they need is people coming to them only to discover the item doesn't exist. It would give their game away real quick. Plus, buyers would have their address and make the chances of them being caught a lot higher.

[joethenuts]

hi springy I once met a 70 year old retired thief/ scammer what ever you want to call him , and while having coffee outside my fav coffee place in lygon st , he sort of  knew me and he started talking about how he scammed all his life and did not spend 1 day in jail , and if you are ever near my place pop in by and i will tell you some of them , but they were amazing  , , and theres 1 today that happens in retail stores that no cameras or security guard could ever tell.  in fact i have no idea how they come up with them. 

by the way this chap is deceesed now , and I rechon he did not pay for the coffin either.

and by the way no armed robery or anything like that  just thief and scammed. 

[kopenhagen5]

Correct Springy, NARU Not A Registered User.

Definitely scams, as tazz pointed out possibly only to get personal details, especially your PayPal email addy.

[*tippy*toes*]

I wonder if it would be worth using a disposible email address, like Hotmail or Yahoo? That way, if a scammer does get your email address, you can just create a new one. I use my regular every day email address and never had a problem, but you just never know these days. Scammers are getting more clever by the day. Who's to say that it won't come about that just clicking on the email installs something, without having to click on a link or open an attachment?

It's just a shame that these scammers and hackers can't put their skills to good use, like fighting cyber crime, instead of creating it. That said, they wouldn't get the amount of money they do by putting it to good use.

[go-tazz]

---

@springyzone wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

Tazz, I am most impressed, I was able to find a couple of the other listings but have no idea how to tell if they have been reported or not and did not realise any of the sellers had been struck off (which is what NARU means?).

There are ways to search,(you just need to use terms that may get results,(eg: I looked in completed and

found the first one and then copied their listing title into a search to find the others as you mentioned they

copied from a Spanish seller which I had scrolled past),

If the seller is NARU'd then the listing is no longer visible when you click on it in completed listings and you

are given other options,(it will eventually drop out of completed as well).

I am surprised none of them got a neg.

Not enough time for members to "get" their items and none of them knowing it was a scam).

---

---

@*tippy*toes* wrote:

Who's to say that it won't come about that just clicking on the email installs something, without having to click on a link or open an attachment?

---

That's why on all possible suspect Emails you should never click on them,(just hover the pointer over it and

right click to bring up View message source).

Then click on it and you can tell by that if the Email is genuine or not,(it lets you view the Email and see

what's in it without putting yourself at risk).

It might take a little bit of time to work it out but you soon learn to recognise the signs,(like fake Email

addresses,"language" problems,etc).