Being Scammed, and the long wait for resolution

[offgridsupplies]

I've been both a seller and buyer on eBay for a very long time, most of the people I've dealt with have been friendly and good people.

I recently purchased a Western Digital NAS Box for $523 from a seller who had a 100% positive rating and had been a member of ebay for 5 years. They answered my questions about the item, I purchased, paid straight away, and then got no response from them at all after sending them several messages on ebay regarding obtaining a tracking number for my purchased goods.. I used the ebay page to request contact details and obtained a phone number for them, I called the number and noone on the other end had heard of the person or knew anything about the item in question..

I then contacted ebay live message support and was told several times to 'use the ebay request contact details page', which I had to repeat telling the support person I had already done, and attempted contact, and found that the telephone number on the sellers account was fraudulent, after a while I was then told to call the ebay telephone number and speak to that support section as they could "enter a manual dispute" seeing as I was denied access to lodging a dispute for the item by the ebay system until at least 7 days had passed. I called the support number and was run through the same routine as the live message support person put me through in addition to being told to "lodge a dispute", which the ebay system makes impossible. After much talking with the phone support person I was told they could not lodge a dispute until at least 7 days had passed (at which time the seller could scam many more people and still have enough time to withdraw the funds from paypal).

I've since lodged a dispute with Paypal directly, as the ebay system would not allow it. Hopefully this, at least, will freeze my money in the scammers account long enough for it to be recovered.

I realise that there is a money back guarantee on certain items, and I've been told my purchase is covered under those terms, but the long 7 day wait makes it possible for scammers to get away with withdrawing the cash, it's a rather large loophole it would seem, and doesn't need to be so, why not simply employ simple measures to protect buyers better? Such as:

Verification for Sellers (before they can list an item for sale):
+ All Sellers must have gone through Phone Verification (not simply as an option).
+ All parcels require a valid tracking number.
+ To mark an item 'Sent', Sellers must enter a valid tracking number.
+ Funds held in limbo for 48hrs, or until Seller enters a verified Parcel Tracking Number.
+ A record kept in the system of all present and past addresses the seller uses on their account.

Small changes in the way things are done, like above, would ensure scams like the one I've experienced, don't happen. And if it is attempted, ebay and paypal can simply deny funds access and wont incur a loss.

[go-tazz]

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@offgridsupplies wrote:

I realise that there is a money back guarantee on certain items, and I've been told my purchase is covered under those terms, but the long 7 day wait makes it possible for scammers to get away with withdrawing the cash, it's a rather large loophole it would seem, and doesn't need to be so, why not simply employ simple measures to protect buyers better? Such as:

Verification for Sellers (before they can list an item for sale):
+ All Sellers must have gone through Phone Verification (not simply as an option).

+ All parcels require a valid tracking number.

It's not viable for a high amount of sales and would stop sales cold if the buyer was forced to pay the extra cost

+ To mark an item 'Sent', Sellers must enter a valid tracking number.
+ Funds held in limbo for 48hrs, or until Seller enters a verified Parcel Tracking Number.
+ A record kept in the system of all present and past addresses the seller uses on their account.

Small changes in the way things are done, like above, would ensure scams like the one I've experienced, don't happen.

No it wouldn't as the account you bought from was hijacked and the original seller could've been fully verified

and if the scammer had uploaded a valid tracking number none of the above would've stopped them,(they

could just post you an empty box).

And if it is attempted, ebay and paypal can simply deny funds access and wont incur a loss.

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They could hijack accounts that could be in good standing and have the "right" things in place but the buyer will

still gets scammed.

[offgridsupplies]

"It's not viable for a high amount of sales and would stop sales cold if the buyer was forced to pay the extra cost"

No, bulk sellers use automated methods, with the services AustPost offer this would be no different.

"No it wouldn't as the account you bought from was hijacked and the original seller could've been fully verified"

To get money to an actual bank account from paypal, a real name account is required.

"and if the scammer had uploaded a valid tracking number none of the above would've stopped them,(they could just post you an empty box)."

That would come under a different dispute category "Not as Described".

[phorum_junkie*]

I cannot understand why anyone opens a not received dispute through ebay, not only do you have to wait you are likely to lose if the seller provides a tracking number that shows delivery anywhere in a 30k radius of their home address.

I would always open a not received dispute through Paypal as you can do so straight away and even if the3 seller provides a tracking number Paypal will check that the delivery is at least to the buyer's suburb and are prepared to refund if it does not track to the actual address if you know how to approach them.

Ebay is best for not as described as the seller will have to pay return postage if they lose and want the goods returned.

[digital*ghost]

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@offgridsupplies wrote:

"It's not viable for a high amount of sales and would stop sales cold if the buyer was forced to pay the extra cost"

No, bulk sellers use automated methods, with the services AustPost offer this would be no different.

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I believe Tazz is referring to letter-rate items, which do not have a tracking number unless they are registered (over the counter cost of registered is $3.80, so when postage is around $2, tripling the cost is not viable for many small items).

Also, a number of high-volume sellers have contract rates with AP, and they don't include tracking as a basic feature of parcels - it can be added for an additional cost, but whether that additional cost is viable will vary between sellers and items. 

[offgridsupplies]

Indeed, it's a flawed system, and the support desk people can't (or wont?) change it.

Even when you've proven evidence that their account is fraudulent, the "mandatory 7 day wait" gives the crims ample time to withdraw funds and disappear.

[offgridsupplies]

digital*ghost, ahh I see. I was speaking more about the types of items (high value bulky items) scammers usually try and pedal.

[lyndal1838]

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@offgridsupplies wrote:

Indeed, it's a flawed system, and the support desk people can't (or wont?) change it.

Even when you've proven evidence that their account is fraudulent, the "mandatory 7 day wait" gives the crims ample time to withdraw funds and disappear.

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It really does not matter if the funds are withdrawn....the buyer will still get their refund if they win the dispute.  It is then up to ebaypaypal to recoup their funds from the scammer.

[digital*ghost]

Some of your suggestions are actually more than valid when speaking about high value items, and some have actually been implemented in various (limited) forms.

eg Newer sellers, or those that haven't sold anything for a long period of time, will have their PayPal payments held for up to 21 days before being released (this isn't visible from the buyer's side, and valid tracking / delivery status is supposed to get the funds released earlier, though usually doesn't). I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of escrow system is expanded in some areas.

Signature on delivery in addition to valid tracking is not mandated, but is required for seller protection both by eBay and PayPal when the total value (item plus postage) is $750 or more. 

Some security / verification systems are in place when a seller registers, or accesses their account from unfamiliar devices or locations, but it's not 100% effective as we routinely see via newly registered scammers, or highjacked accounts. The above payment holds are more designed to minimise PayPal / eBay losses, really, rather than actively work to prevent scam listings. 

[go-tazz]

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@offgridsupplies wrote:

"It's not viable for a high amount of sales and would stop sales cold if the buyer was forced to pay the extra cost"

No, bulk sellers use automated methods, with the services AustPost offer this would be no different.

If you used the registered label option it would add $3.80 to each parcel or more if using other options.
 

"No it wouldn't as the account you bought from was hijacked and the original seller could've been fully verified"

To get money to an actual bank account from paypal, a real name account is required.

That's why a hijacker uses a "genuine" sellers account,(they then direct buyers to pay into a different

account or use a re-direct fake website for buyers to pay into or hijack their Paypal account as well.

"and if the scammer had uploaded a valid tracking number none of the above would've stopped them,(they could just post you an empty box)."

That would come under a different dispute category "Not as Described".

You wouldn't find out for possibly weeks or a month down the track,(in the mean time the scammer has the

money and is gone).

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