NO REFUNDS FOR MAIL LOST BY AUSTRALIA POST. - Not reasonable?

[ekrabappel]

I saw this "NO REFUNDS FOR MAIL LOST BY AUSTRALIA POST." in the conditions of an item. Considering a lost item is not the fault of the buyer AND only the sender (i.e. the seller) can claim restitution from Aus Post for lost items I find this very unreasonable. The seller insists that all parcels are sent with tracking so in most case would know if item is lost and can claim money back. Personally, I would not buy from any seller with such an attitude.  I also suspect that EBay/Paypal would refund the buyer regardless of such piffle in the T&C. Has anyone seen this before or does anyone use this on their listings?

[repentatleisure1952]

1. Yes...I have seen this before.

2. Yes...some obviously use it on their listings...as you have seen.

3. If I wanted the item I would buy from sellers that use those T&C's.

4. No need to "suspect" anything...read the MBG.

[*tippy*toes*]

---

@ekrabappel wrote:

I saw this "NO REFUNDS FOR MAIL LOST BY AUSTRALIA POST." in the conditions of an item. Considering a lost item is not the fault of the buyer AND only the sender (i.e. the seller) can claim restitution from Aus Post for lost items I find this very unreasonable. The seller insists that all parcels are sent with tracking so in most case would know if item is lost and can claim money back. Personally, I would not buy from any seller with such an attitude.  I also suspect that EBay/Paypal would refund the buyer regardless of such piffle in the T&C. Has anyone seen this before or does anyone use this on their listings?

---

Sellers are actually not supposed to put that in their listings. Ebay doesn't like it. Regardless, they are responsible for lost items, as far as refunds go. It doesn't matter what clauses they put in their Ts&Cs, if an item is not delivered, the buyer will get a full refund if they open a dispute for item not received. If the seller can't show tracking that says they item is delivered, they are forced to refund. Ebay takes the money from them.

It goes without saying, if the item does end up arriving, the right thing to do is repay the seller.

I don't care if a seller has that in their description, I will buy anyway if everything else stacks up. I know that if something does go wrong, I am covered by the eBay MBG.

[digital*ghost]

While it's a breach of eBay's policies to state that, and a refund if tracking doesn't show delivery is pretty much guaranteed (though currently, it won't necessarily come from the seller), this is actually a fully legal term to have. The only reason the vast majority of businesses don't have it is because - as you mentioned - buyers don't like assuming any risk for buying online (or, more specifically, don't like to think there's any risk in doing so), and it's likely businesses ultimately lose more money from having such terms than they lose from refunding for lost packages. 

Personally I don't buy from sellers with agressive T&Cs, whether it's about issues like this or something else - the transaction may be fine, but if it isn't, I don't want to deal with a seller that isn't willing to help me, and terms like that don't inspire confidence that they will. 

[ekrabappel]

Thanks for the replies. Thought as much.  Similar to those silly waivers on tickets trying to negate any responsibility for duty of care.

[zanadoo_56]

I'm not keen on sellers who say strictly payment within 24hours.  I pay right away, but then they go into say no time wasters or in a couple of cases I've seen, they called anyone who hasn't paid right away a scammer!  To me they sound too nasty to deal with if something goes wrong.

I can't help thinking that online selling is not really their thing and they should consider something less stressful to do.

[*tippy*toes*]

---

@zanadoo_56 wrote:

I'm not keen on sellers who say strictly payment within 24hours.  I pay right away, but then they go into say no time wasters or in a couple of cases I've seen, they called anyone who hasn't paid right away a scammer!  To me they sound too nasty to deal with if something goes wrong.

I can't help thinking that online selling is not really their thing and they should consider something less stressful to do.

---

You have 4 days to pay before a seller can open a non payment dispute, despite their terms. If a seller gives you a false positive saying you are a scammer because you took 3 days to pay, then you report the feedback to ebay, which they will remove, and the seller gets a violation. 

Buyers have all the rights, despite what clauses sellers put in their description. Never forget that. Sellers have zero rights. Never forget that either.

[digital*ghost]

---

@*tippy*toes* wrote:

Sellers have zero rights. Never forget that either.

---

Just in case anyone needs this to be said, this is 100% wrong.

Why would you even post that, even if ironically? 

Buyers who do not meet the terms outlined in a listing (as long as they are not in breach of ebay policy and / or consumer law) are - by eBay policy - not permitted to bid on or buy from a listing, and if they do, it is reportable to ebay. (I've done this myself, and cancelled transactions with zero repurcussions when buyers who have not met my terms purchase anyway). 

[joztamps]

---

@ekrabappel wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Thought as much.  Similar to those silly waivers on tickets trying to negate any responsibility for duty of care.

---

Thanks for that info, could have saved us that 6 months studying all those "Ticket Cases" back in Law School!

Could also have saved my divers clients all that money I charged them for drafting watertight exemption clauses!

[zanadoo_56]

---

@*tippy*toes* wrote:

---

@zanadoo_56 wrote:

I'm not keen on sellers who say strictly payment within 24hours.  I pay right away, but then they go into say no time wasters or in a couple of cases I've seen, they called anyone who hasn't paid right away a scammer!  To me they sound too nasty to deal with if something goes wrong.

I can't help thinking that online selling is not really their thing and they should consider something less stressful to do.

---

You have 4 days to pay before a seller can open a non payment dispute, despite their terms. If a seller gives you a false positive saying you are a scammer because you took 3 days to pay, then you report the feedback to ebay, which they will remove, and the seller gets a violation. 

Buyers have all the rights, despite what clauses sellers put in their description. Never forget that. Sellers have zero rights. Never forget that either.

---

I know I have 4 days.  My post was just to highlight some sellers who post these kinds of messages because they seem to hate all buyers....which makes me wonder why they do it.  LOL