Nibble bidding.. this look a tad Fishy?

[many*splendid*things]

Hi, I've been pulling out my hair this week dealing with a new seller (zero feedback, registered last year).

I was the winning bidder in their auction (last second snipe). Afterwards I took a look at the bid history and suspected the underbidder (newbie zero bidder, 100% activity with the seller) may have been up to a little nibble bidding on the sly (had been upping their bid numerous times by small increments while already the high bidder). Does the bidding pattern (below) look a bit fishy to anyone else?

Anyway, as the end price was below the buy it now price, I thought I'd let any report of shill bidding slide on this occasion just so the transaction would go ahead (I've no idea what happens in circumstances where ebay identify shill bidding- whether they remove the listing entirely or if just the offending bidder/bids are removed).

Now the seller has finally contacted me after I attempted to pay (after previously not responding to an earlier total request or follow up message). And I say 'attempted' to pay because the paypal payment was immediately flagged as pending and 'Unclaimed'.

Surprise, surprise now they don't want to sell for less than the buy it now price which was $60 more than the end price claiming they're new to listing on ebay and indicating they believed the buy it now price was the minimum they'd have to sell for (which just smacks of playing dumb to me).

Anyone know if there's any point reporting suspected shill bidding after a listing has already ended? (ie. do ebay do anything about shill bidding reports 'after' listings have ended?

Also, as I've left things in the seller's court for the moment on the off chance they might decide to come through on their side of the deal, is anyone able to offer advice on how to proceed? My understanding is that I should open a not received through ebay if they eventually don't send which I will do once I'm satisfied of their intention not to send, but can anyone advise what to do about the 'Unclaimed' paypal payment? Do I need the seller to sort out their paypal account in order to refund me, or can I cancel this by going into paypal myself? I should say that having being given the run around by the seller, I'm not too eager to 'agree' to cancel the sale, but I don't know if ebay still require you to tick that box regarding cancellations these days.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I've noticed from a couple of experiences now that it can be hard work at times dealing with new sellers - especially when it comes to receiving simple replies to messages (was a bit like this one was hoping it'd all just go away and I'd forget about paying -which is a bit hard to do when you've got ebay sending payment reminders daily).

BidderBid Amount Bid Time

	f***t( 364)	AU $132.50	20-Mar-17  21:41:43 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $130.00	20-Mar-17  17:11:11 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $125.00	20-Mar-17  07:53:39 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $120.00	20-Mar-17  07:53:23 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $115.00	20-Mar-17  07:53:13 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $110.00	19-Mar-17  15:52:07 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $105.00	18-Mar-17  20:52:09 AEDST
	3***y( 407)	AU $101.00	20-Mar-17  17:58:42 AEDST
	f***r( 0 )	AU $100.00	18-Mar-17  18:43:27 AEDST
	3***y( 407)	AU $95.00	13-Mar-17  16:19:22 AEDST
	Starting Price	AU $95.00	10-Mar-17  21:41:44 AEDST

[lyndal1838]

There are plenty of new sellers who think that the BIN price is a reserve so I would not hold that against him.

As for the bidding history you have posted....no, it does not look like an attempt at shill bidding to me.   The account is so new that there has hardly been enough time for him to bid on more than one item and the idea of shill bidding is to force the price up but there was no higher bidder for him to force up.   Just forget it is my opinion.

Don't cancel your payment if you want the item.   Maybe wait another day or so then open an Item Not Received dispute.  The seller will have the option of accepting your payment and sending the item or you will get your money back.   Definitely do not agree to a cancellation.   If you actually refuse it (rather than ignore the request) the seller will have to pay his fees so may think twice before doing this again.

[*tippy*toes*]

If the sellers PayPal is not accepting your payment, he probably hasn't upgraded it to receive payments. He needs to upgrade it to Premier. If he doesn't, your payment will just sit in limbo until you cancel it. Don't let him talk you into paying by bank deposit. PayPal or nothing.

As for sending it, no-one can force a seller to post. They are not supposed to back out if they don't get the price they wanted, but eBay don't seem to police that rule.

[springyzone]

When the paypal payment is sitting in limbo with that eggtimer thing going, you can cancel it yourself.

You're probably going to have to eventually because the seller obviously isn't going to accept it.

Just go into your paypal account and it isn't too hard to do.

However. If the seller by chance claims they they are having a problem with their paypal account & are working on it but in the meantime can you please cancel paypal & pay into their bank account instead-don't do it. I got caught out that way once, having a panic & thinking I would be marked as a non paying bidder if I didn't.

I now realise that wouldn't have happened, so don't be suckered in if they try it.

It doesn't sound like the nibble bids were fishy as if someone was upping their max bid when they were the highest bidder, that would not show at all. It would not show till someone tried to outbid them, which you only did at the last second.

I would say it was just someone indecisive, not putting their true max in at the start.

[lyndal1838]

Springy, if the OP cancels the paypal payment then the seller gets away with it.   If they put in a dispute for item not received the seller is forced to either send the item or ask for a cancellation.  If the OP refuses the cancellation the seller will have to pay fees.

[springyzone]

I didn't think of that, lyndall. I thought if the payment hadn't gone through then the buyer was classed as the non payer.

Good to know it isn't so.

You're right. If it is possible to put in an item not received claim, that's what the buyer should do!!

[many*splendid*things]

Thanks everyone for your comments. And thanks for clarifying the issue about cancelling the payment directly -I was wondering if that would affect whether the seller would be held to account in any way - such as having to pay a 'fine' of sorts with their fees (ebay have been sending out 'sell your first item for free' notices recently, so fees might not apply here). I wasn't sure if I'd still be able to hit the 'I didn't receive it' link if I'd already had the paypal payment cancelled, so thanks lyndal for clearing that up.

In regards to the nibbley $5 bids I was thinking it may have been more along the lines of gradually setting a 'shill reserve' -as insurance, given the price hadn't budged much beyond the start price. (If it was connected to the seller, maybe they weren't familiar with the sniping culture and thought they'd have opportunities to keep bumping it up perhaps??) Or, just an attempt to kick off a bidding war with the other bidder. Anyway, when the seller later said they wouldn't sell for the price, it all just seemed a bit coincidental. I think I might report it to ebay anyway, cos it looks like the deal is dead in the water.

The seller say's they know they made a mistake but just aren't prepared to 'sell it cheap' and that if they're kicked off ebay they accept that. I am tempted to leave a red dot though. I might feel differently if they'd contacted me right away but they left me wondering what was going on for days and having to chase up a response (ignored the total request plus a follow up message). I ended up paying the full amount just to get it out of the way (ebay calculated the post charge was $32 for a 5kg regular satchel which I'd asked the seller to confirm was correct).

It's a pity ebay don't force members do some kind of interactive tutorial before they're allowed start buying or selling (to drive home a few of the main points about how to go about things and what is expected). Could save more than a few headaches if you had to earn your buyer/seller 'license' before being set loose on the site. Just something for the market researchers if they ever take a look in here.

[phorum_junkie*]

It's a pity ebay don't force members do some kind of interactive tutorial before they're allowed start buying or selling (to drive home a few of the main points about how to go about things and what is expected).

That is exactly why most of us say to give newbie sellers a break if they list things at very low start prices. Ebay do give tips to new sellers and one very prominent one advises them to list at a low start price and that auctions that start at 99c attract more bidders.

[many*splendid*things]

I see your point and I'd likely feel a tad guilty if I'd won an item of value for a ridiculously low price (due to ebay's 99c auction start advice). In this case the seller listed at a substantial start price ($95) which makes me think they're not totally clueless about the way ebay works. (The seller claimed they thought they'd only have to sell if it reached their $190 BIN price, in which case why not start at 99c and attract all the bidders like ebay suggests?)

[many*splendid*things]

Hi, just an update with this one: 

As the seller hasn't made any further contact, I've just gone to open an 'I haven't received this Item' (using the ebay options) and received the following prompt from ebay:-

"PayPal reports that a case shouldn't be opened

We're sorry there's an issue with this purchase. Unfortunately, PayPal reports that we can't open a case for this item. You can try to work out this problem by contacting the seller."

Could this be something to do with estimated delivery time (paid for last Thursday - seller hasn't marked as sent obviously).

If it's not that, I'm assuming the problem is that the paypal payment remains 'unclaimed' (egg timer symbol next to transaction). This seems to indicate I can't go through the ebay system unless the payment is actually claimed by the seller first. Seems like a bit of a loophole (in regards to the fvf issue and possibly feedback also) if my only option here is to cancel my paypal payment - and the transaction subsequently returns to unpaid status.

Any thoughts?