Discussion that challenges supposed mainstream beliefs and officially accepted stances

[4channel]

Some issues when discussed can cause a range of reactions. Sometimes they can lead to an awakening, the beginning of a journey to discovering something new, or they can can cause a certain type of reaction in a person who may not like what they hear. I think that it's all about how we choose to deal with the info we're hearing and how we process it.

Take the issues of let's say ....  fluoride and mobile phone tower radiation. The government has allowed the fluoridation of our water and they have allowed the construction of mobile phone towers in residential areas. Does that mean the water is safe to drink and it causes no ill affect? Does that mean that the mobile phone towers are safe?  What about the handsets. Are they safe for children to use and hold against their heads?

Well, we discuss these things and some people do react angrily to the people discussing these issues. Does this mean that we have to stop discussion that challenges the supposed official stance or challenges what we are told is the mainstream belief? Do we have to self-censor or have this in a [private group? I have noticed that in discussion forums or the media that racist beliefs are a;allowed a platform and yet issues that many folk feel that need to be addressed because of health concerns are not given the same platform. To me racism is abhorrent and yet in the media, it gets the pass ticket while issues that some call important to health freedom do not! Why is that?  Could it be political? What are your thoughts?

NOTE:

Spoiler

This is a discussion that some people here would be interested in while others may not be. Folks with opposing views are welcome as  always. Please, if someone has an issue with these topics being discussed or another member, could they refrain from any attacks on others or deliberately flooding this thread with off topic filler.

[4channel]

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Re: Discussion that challenges supposed mainstream beliefs and officially accepted stances

in reply to 4channel

yesterday

@simone4010 wrote:

4channel - Back in June I went to a children's party where I ran into a friend who had a six month old baby. She was telling me that at the baby's checkup the week before, the doctor said the baby should have a flu shot. My friend figured that since the baby was getting it that her and her husband should get it too. I then asked her where her husband was and she said he was home with the flu 

I've never had a flu nor have I ever had a flu shot. Olive leaf extract is a great immune system booster, I swear by it.

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We need to have more transparency.

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BMJ. 1999 Jan 16; 318(7177): 193.

doi: 10.1136/bmj.318.7177.193

PMCID: PMC1114674

PMID: 9888928

Public should be told that vaccines may have long term adverse effects

John Barthelow Classen, President*

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114674/

============================================

Rapid Response:Official doubletalk hides serious problems with flu shot safety and effectiveness

OFFICIAL DOUBLETALK HIDES SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH FLU SHOT SAFETY AND EFFECTIVENESS

After weeks of brooding about the Donahue article linking flu shots to miscarriages (Vaccine 2017;35:5314) it was with a sense of relief that I read Rob Wipond’s narrative of media attempts to sweep a serious vaccine safety issue under the rug….He points out the hypocrisy (his words were “double standard”) of authorities who dismissed the Donahue paper because it was an “observational study.” Year after year they have quoted observational studies to announce, “…80% vaccine effectiveness…60% effectiveness…40% effectiveness…” They do not mention that these studies make no effort to look for adverse vaccine effects (e.g. narcolepsy, seizures, high fever, oculorespiratory syndrome). They do not mention “negative vaccine effectiveness”, the increase in risk of illness from influenza and non-influenza viruses associated with (or caused by) the vaccines. (Cowling, Clin Inf Dis 2012;54:1778) They do not mention that a vaccine “effective” in one season may increase influenza risk in a subsequent season. (Read about “antibody-dependent enhancement” to understand one explanatory mechanism). They do not mention that the observational studies they refer to are likely to exaggerate vaccine effectiveness in the first place because of the “healthy user effect” well known to epidemiologists.

https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k15/rr

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[springyzone]

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@4channel wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

The vaccine issue is one I retain a little question mark with. My wife is blind due to being one of the last babies born before the Rubella vaccination programme in schools really became established, so I have some skin in the game so as to speak. Covid has also shown us how important vaccines can be when a disease or virus gets going.

I haven't actually looked deeply into the claims of the anti vaxers, but I suspect there has been an increased prevalence in Autism in our modern society. It seems to be a very common occurrence compared to the past. The experts claim this is because of better diagnosis, but thats could be an easy out in a cover up.

So is the anti- vaxers claims that vaccination causes autism correct ( something is causing it ) and if so which vaccine in particular ?   I could well imagine the medical profession and government's could close ranks on this issue, purely because vaccination saves so many lives when weighed against a few people suffering autism. It could be the same as governments, big pharma and the medical profession closing ranks to hide the risks of using statins due to the lives saved from heart disease outweighing the cost of a few people suffering severe reactions to the medication.

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Good post chameleon54 and it's looking at it broadly. First of all I'd like to say that in the vaccination  issue, the media does tend to label selective vaxers and vaccination choice people as anti-vaxers.  I guess with me, I would be close to selective as I still believe some are necessary while others are not. Rubella can be serious and for your wife it was.

I'll post more on this later but with autism, I believe the answer is "Yes, it is in a lot of cases related to vaccination". Vaccines contain mercury and aluminium. A tiny developing human being is bombarded with neurotoxins too often in a short period of time and expected to withstand this. How often are we supposed to say ... "Oh this kid was born autistic" when the little one was bright, cheerful, inquisitive and upbeat. Then after a vaccination or three, there's an almost immediate downward slide and that personality that once was has now gone forever? This is something maybe hidden that is happening in plain sight.

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Don't want to get into the vaccine debate as such because I believe, on the whole, they have helped enormously to cut down on some of the biggest killers in society. I have an aunt who still remembers the time in the 1930s when for years, schools didn't let children start till they were 7 and children were not allowed out of their own yards. I think it was during polio epidemics. It puts the covid restrictions into the shade a bit.

Vaccines have been around for decades. That  doesn't mean every one is as safe as the other. I would be wary, for instance, of trying any covid vaccine, I'm not 100% sure they haven't been a bit rushed.

But what i wanted to say mainly was that I think increases in some conditions might be due to changes in our environment, maybe chemicals in food and furniture more than vaccines. 4channel is right and children's bodies are more vulnerable as they are smaller and devloping. The thing is, I was in teaching on and off for a few decades but I noticed a definite change around the year 2000.

Up till then (starting in late 70s) I had had some large classes. I had had one deaf child and one with occasional asthma (for which she took liquid ventolin) but that's about all.

In the late 1990s, I had the school's first Asperger's student in my class. Back then, this was a serious diagnosis, not taken lightly.

In 2000, I had my school's first anaphylactic child start prep in my class. I have always worked in big schools and this had well over 700 primary school children.

After 2000 there  began to be a constant influx of such children and within 10 years, just about every class had at least one student with serious, life threatening allergies. We went from none in the school for the previous 10 years to it being common.

Vaccines by that stage had been around for decades. Something else in the environment is kicking in big time. I don't know what exactly, but whatever it is, it must have started by the mid 1990s. It goes beyond a simple change in rate of diagnosis. Even in the 1970s or 1980s, you wouldn't miss an anaphylactic episode if it happened.

[simone4010]

I really enjoy reading your posts Springyzone.

You're always the voice of reason.

[springyzone]

Thanks, Simone. that is lovely of you to say that. Unfortunately with this debate, I haven't got any answers at all.

[the_great_she_elephant]

The ultimate challenge to mainstream beliefs - could it  be the answer to all our problems?

https://www.gq.com/story/breatharians-the-people-who-think-air-is-food

[4channel]

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@springyzone wrote:

Don't want to get into the vaccine debate as such because I believe, on the whole, they have helped enormously to cut down on some of the biggest killers in society. I have an aunt who still remembers the time in the 1930s when for years, schools didn't let children start till they were 7 and children were not allowed out of their own yards. I think it was during polio epidemics. It puts the covid restrictions into the shade a bit.

Vaccines have been around for decades. That  doesn't mean every one is as safe as the other. I would be wary, for instance, of trying any covid vaccine, I'm not 100% sure they haven't been a bit rushed.

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Well said and a balanced reply. OK, this is a major concern of some people who are even pro-vaccination. They feel it is going to be way too rushed. Who knows what major problems may manifest themselves down the track. Take the vaccine for HPV, many doctors in Japan reject it because of infertility being a side effect. And the problems don't end there either.

What we have now is an opportunity / opening for Big Pharma to make big bucks with a vaccine. It has been proven historically that morals, compassion and ethic sometimes go out the window when it comes to Big Pharma making dollars.

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@springyzone wrote:

But what i wanted to say mainly was that I think increases in some conditions might be due to changes in our environment, maybe chemicals in food and furniture more than vaccines. 4channel is right and children's bodies are more vulnerable as they are smaller and devloping. The thing is, I was in teaching on and off for a few decades but I noticed a definite change around the year 2000.

Up till then (starting in late 70s) I had had some large classes. I had had one deaf child and one with occasional asthma (for which she took liquid ventolin) but that's about all.

In the late 1990s, I had the school's first Asperger's student in my class. Back then, this was a serious diagnosis, not taken lightly.

In 2000, I had my school's first anaphylactic child start prep in my class. I have always worked in big schools and this had well over 700 primary school children.

After 2000 there began to be a constant influx of such children and within 10 years, just about every class had at least one student with serious, life threatening allergies. We went from none in the school for the previous 10 years to it being common.

Vaccines by that stage had been around for decades. Something else in the environment is kicking in big time. I don't know what exactly, but whatever it is, it must have started by the mid 1990s. It goes beyond a simple change in rate of diagnosis. Even in the 1970s or 1980s, you wouldn't miss an anaphylactic episode if it happened.

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Yes, I think we have to look at the chemicals as well as the vaccines. As well as mercury, aluminium and other additives and DNA material etc., formaldehyde is in vaccines. Perhaps vaccines are pushing kids over the edge. I wonder how many of these vaccine tests are taking into account exposure to environmental toxins as well. One thing for sure, babies and toddlers have gone downhill very quickly, often immediately after a vaccine. This needs to be looked at in ways other than previously done.

Getting off vaccines now and looking at the toxins. We're bombarded by so many. I see that springyzone mentioned furniture. Well, formaldehyde is in furniture as well as other household items and clothing. Good article below about that.

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Should You Be Worried About Formaldehyde?

March 7, 2019

Have you ever opened up a new toy for your child or a box of assembly-required furniture, and been knocked over by the smell in the box? After romanticizing about being the first person to breathe in that air since the box left its country of origin, my attention goes to a little voice inside my head that says, “Cough–cough – run! Nobody should breathe in that stuff!”

But then I shrug it off, thinking that if there really were a danger, there would be some kind of warning label advising me to open it outside or allow it to off-gas before using or assembling.

Turns out we should give pause when opening that box.

https://www.sylvane.com/blog/should-you-be-worried-about-formaldehyde/

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We need to encourage discussion on these things. To achieve quality of life is paramount and it's our given right. For people to allow themselves to be embarrassed, shouted down, bullied, mocked by others is a sad and tragic thing. We should never be ashamed for looking at a situation with a view to looking beyond what we percieve or told is the truth. Sometimes it's a veneer that's put there to mask what's really going on. And sometimes it''s not! But we'll never get to the truth and get better control over our well-being if we allow others to derail discussion that may sometimes challenge supposed mainstream beliefs and officially accepted stances.

[domino-710]

You forgot to add Springy's kudos - to your post. 

[4channel]

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@domino-710 wrote:

You forgot to add Springy's kudos - to your post. 

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Yes, after all of that editing I knew I forgot something.

Tell me, what emphasis do you put on the health freedom for yourself and your loved ones?

[4channel]

Below is info from maiin stream as well as respected health professionals. Just imaging self censoring or giving up looking because of fear of ridicule by ofhers.

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Newsweek

Top Scientist Left Stunned by 'Very Odd'
Hydroxychloroquine Senate Hearing

https://www.newsweek.com/top-scientist-hydroxychloroquine-senate-hearing-1549061

----------------------------

39 elderly Texans successfully complete hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19, doctor says

WFAA

121K subscribers

179,984 views

•Apr 15, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqWxlH29_i4

----------------------------

Ep. 154 Outpatient COVID-19 Therapy: Why the Controversy?

530 views
•Nov 2, 2020

The Accad and Koka Report

( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCryNRIMorTPGCiiXwkMLFZQ )

Patients completed a five-day treatment with Hydroxychloroquine and their doctor said none of the patients experienced side effects. Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills. “Most of the patients have done well. And, you know, and I think that that is suggestive that the medication is helpful,” Armstrong told WFAA. But notice that Armstrong qualified his answer by saying “most of the patients.” “Well, I would say I would say all the patients have done well,” Armstrong added. On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects.

READ MORE https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-tr...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cWtMEZZ-FE

====================

There is hope and help for treating COVID-19 at home

Posted Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:00 am
by Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet

SARS-CoV-2 virus was virtually unknown when it hit in early 2020. COVID-19, as the disease is known, now has more than 60,000 National Library of Medicine citations, as the internet disseminates information at the speed of light. Recently President Trump was treated early for COVID-19, with rapid success.

What are the lessons learned from the scientific research?

Lesson 1: COVID-19 is not the death sentence we had at first thought. For healthy 74-year-olds who do not smoke tobacco, don’t drink alcohol, and have no serious medical conditions such as heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, kidney disease, or morbid obesity, recovery rate is better than 95%

https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.com/stories/there-is-hope-and-help-for-treating-covid-19-at-ho...?

==========================

Hydroxychloroquine, evidence of efficacy

319,937 views
•Aug 27, 2020

Dr. John Campbell

( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB2TExg3QIBupFtBDxg )
819K subscribers

Belgium, not Dutch. Low-dose Hydroxychloroquine Therapy and Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19: A Nationwide Observational Study of 8075 Participants (International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, 24 August)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uzXHnUViro

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Vital info and tis can defiinitely take the pressure off the hospital system.

[rogespeed]

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@4channel wrote:

Below is info from maiin stream as well as respected health professionals. Just imaging self censoring or giving up looking because of fear of ridicule by ofhers.

---

Newsweek

Top Scientist Left Stunned by 'Very Odd'
Hydroxychloroquine Senate Hearing

https://www.newsweek.com/top-scientist-hydroxychloroquine-senate-hearing-1549061

----------------------------

39 elderly Texans successfully complete hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19, doctor says

WFAA

121K subscribers

179,984 views

•Apr 15, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqWxlH29_i4

----------------------------

Ep. 154 Outpatient COVID-19 Therapy: Why the Controversy?

530 views
•Nov 2, 2020

The Accad and Koka Report

( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCryNRIMorTPGCiiXwkMLFZQ )

Patients completed a five-day treatment with Hydroxychloroquine and their doctor said none of the patients experienced side effects. Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills. “Most of the patients have done well. And, you know, and I think that that is suggestive that the medication is helpful,” Armstrong told WFAA. But notice that Armstrong qualified his answer by saying “most of the patients.” “Well, I would say I would say all the patients have done well,” Armstrong added. On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects.

READ MORE https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-tr...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cWtMEZZ-FE

====================

There is hope and help for treating COVID-19 at home

Posted Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:00 am
by Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet

SARS-CoV-2 virus was virtually unknown when it hit in early 2020. COVID-19, as the disease is known, now has more than 60,000 National Library of Medicine citations, as the internet disseminates information at the speed of light. Recently President Trump was treated early for COVID-19, with rapid success.

What are the lessons learned from the scientific research?

Lesson 1: COVID-19 is not the death sentence we had at first thought. For healthy 74-year-olds who do not smoke tobacco, don’t drink alcohol, and have no serious medical conditions such as heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, kidney disease, or morbid obesity, recovery rate is better than 95%

https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.com/stories/there-is-hope-and-help-for-treating-covid-19-at-ho...?

==========================

Hydroxychloroquine, evidence of efficacy

319,937 views
•Aug 27, 2020

Dr. John Campbell

( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB2TExg3QIBupFtBDxg )
819K subscribers

Belgium, not Dutch. Low-dose Hydroxychloroquine Therapy and Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19: A Nationwide Observational Study of 8075 Participants (International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, 24 August)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uzXHnUViro

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Vital info and tis can defiinitely take the pressure off the hospital system.

---

My understanding is that this therapy also requires bio-accessible zinc - although I suppose if patients already have enough in circulation no suppliment is required