Paypal dispute for pickup item - new rules?

[collectibles_in_canberra]

Sold a large wall unit for pickup only $850  - buyer sent courier to pickup.

He received and then opened a dispute for not as described due to apparent scratches etc  (50 year old unit with scratches, dents etc mentioned in listing).

He demands a $350 refund or we pay the courier costs both ways for him to return the unit.

I was going to escalate it to a Paypal dispute but was wary of how the new Paypal pickup laws work.

I have no faith in Paypal seeing common sense at all.

Anyone had a recent case?

[digital*ghost]

I don't allow pick-up and don't know of any other cases since the new policies came into effect, but in any case there's no way the buyer can force you to pay for return costs, unless they take it to court, and win - which doesn't seem likely just going on the info provided here (see info below). They would get a full refund of the original payment if the case is found in their favour, though).

In any case, the complaint doesn't seem to meet the criteria for "significantly not as described". If something is described as pre-owned with some signs of age, wear and tear etc, then "scratches" is not SNAD (if you check the PP protection policies, this is mentioned quite specifically).

[kopenhagen5]

Try something like -

"With respect the item was described with scratches etc. and I don't feel I should be refunding, however for good order sake I am prepared to refund the amount of ($150 or $200)". Whichever amount you, the seller, thinks is fair.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@collectibles_in_canberra wrote:

Sold a large wall unit for pickup only $850  - buyer sent courier to pickup.

He received and then opened a dispute for not as described due to apparent scratches etc  (50 year old unit with scratches, dents etc mentioned in listing).

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I would be asking him for photographs of the scratches he is complaining about.  If these are also apparent in the listing photos, or consistent with the scratching mentioned in the listing, then I would not be offering any refund.  The wording in the PayPal policy is very clear on SNAD claims.

Take a look at the PayPal Buyer Protection policy for SNAD.  Some sections may be helpful to you in your case (S11.1)

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#int_Schedule_1

.

If you described the item as being "Used", and you mentioned the scratches in the description, then your buyer may not be entitled to a refund of any description.

[thecatspjs]

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@collectibles_in_canberra wrote:

Sold a large wall unit for pickup only $850  - buyer sent courier to pickup.

He received and then opened a dispute for not as described due to apparent scratches etc  (50 year old unit with scratches, dents etc mentioned in listing).

He demands a $350 refund or we pay the courier costs both ways for him to return the unit.

I was going to escalate it to a Paypal dispute but was wary of how the new Paypal pickup laws work.

I have no faith in Paypal seeing common sense at all.

Anyone had a recent case?

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I'd ask for photos before I made a decision to escalate.   

If the photos the buyer sends are consistent with the listing description I would fight the claim.  If the photos were of damage that had occured after sale, I would fight it.

BUT before I made any move with paypal, I would do my best to be non-combative and attempt to get every bit of information from the buyer I could - if you do decide to fight a claim, the buyers photos of the damage may be very important to framing your case.

I

[collectibles_in_canberra]

The item was a Borge Mogensen unit so if you have a look I indicated the defects in the 'Description' box and listing info.

His main complaint is some scratches & colour variation which is under the top unit that sits on the base and cannot be seen anyway.

I told him to return it for a refund but I will not be paying any courier costs.

He claims the courier cost $250 so that will be $500 all up so I'm assuming he will not escalate it as Paypal will surely make him return it.

He is a reseller of vintage Danish furniture so I guess he is trying to maximise his profit margin.

[collectibles_in_canberra]

Plus I took an offer $400 less than asking price.

Didn't want to accept but needed the cash.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@collectibles_in_canberra wrote:

The item was a Borge Mogensen unit so if you have a look I indicated the defects in the 'Description' box and listing info.

His main complaint is some scratches & colour variation which is under the top unit that sits on the base and cannot be seen anyway.

I told him to return it for a refund but I will not be paying any courier costs.

He claims the courier cost $250 so that will be $500 all up so I'm assuming he will not escalate it as Paypal will surely make him return it.

He is a reseller of vintage Danish furniture so I guess he is trying to maximise his profit margin.

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stick to your guns regarding the courier costs.  I am assuming he paid for the courier himself and not through the PayPal payment for the item.  This would make it impossible for him to recoup this cost from you.

PayPal Buyer Protection clearly states that the buyer is responsible for return costs, even after their recent update in policy.  If the only way for him to return the unit is by courier then don't be tricked into saying anything that might be construed as agreeing to pay for the return.  Start every message with something like "I will not be funding the return costs".  In fact, outside of any PayPal claim you don't need get into any exchange of messages more than what you already have.

[go-tazz]

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@collectibles_in_canberra wrote:

The item was a Borge Mogensen unit so if you have a look I indicated the defects in the 'Description' box and listing info.

His main complaint is some scratches & colour variation which is under the top unit that sits on the base and cannot be seen anyway.

I told him to return it for a refund but I will not be paying any courier costs.

That's opened the door for him to return it as you offered a return,(never offer a return first as PP could

then say you offered so you must think there is a reason to do so)

He claims the courier cost $250 so that will be $500 all up so I'm assuming he will not escalate it as Paypal will surely make him return it.

He is a reseller of vintage Danish furniture so I guess he is trying to maximise his profit margin.

 He will probably then ask for a partial refund as  a "favour" to you and to bring it up to scratch.

Don't be surprised if he offers you a low amount for the other unit as compensation.

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You described it with the scratches and he can't claim on anything that's hidden from view.

This is the PP buyer protection policy: https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#Schedule_1_PayPal_Seller_and_Buyer_Prote...

The part pertaining to you:

S11.2 An item is not considered to be “significantly not as described” if:

1. It was reasonably and prominently described at the seller’s point of sale;
2. The description could have been reasonably misinterpreted by you or the seller. For example, if the item is a different colour than advertised (eg, the item is aquamarine but was advertised as teal);
3. The item did not meet your expectations; or
4. It has minor scratches but was listed as “in used condition.”

S11.3 We reserve our right to make a decision if you and the seller cannot agree and we will exercise our sole discretion when determining a claim of “significantly not as described.” We will consider numerous factors which may include the communications between you and the seller and any documentation you have provided. We will provide you with reasons for our decision upon request.

[lyndal1838]

You are looking at the listing for the matching bookcase that was listed at the same time.....the buyer did not buy that one.