REFUNDS + EBAY COMMUNICATION + PAY PAL HOLDS

[glstockbuyers]

I have a bricks and mortar store and I'm starting to sell items on eBay, asking questions to eBay regularly as I learn how eBay works. However, upon asking advice on my first refund, I've had contradicting information from various ebay personnel I've spoken to over the past few days which has made me very uncomfortable with selling on eBay as I'm about to list thousands of items from my physical store.

I sell kids toys, playgrounds and outside equipment. Most of these items are  very expensive to ship ($30 to $90 nationally) so in my return policy, I have 14 day returns, 20% restocking fee, buyer pays return postage. I also have extra details in my listing description about not accepting "remorse returns" etc.

I've sold 14 of these on eBay already. One user purchased from me, received the item. Left positive feedback for me, then about a week later noticed the exact same product in a department store for a cheaper price. They wrote to me saying they were "very dissapointed that they found the same product for cheaper and asked for a refund".

I contacted ebay for advive on what to do and they said "you are okay as you don't need to refund remorse returns". So they suggested to write back to the user saying, that unfortunately you can't do remorse returns. I asked if this would affect my account, they said "no" as since it would be a remorse return (the person read the msgs between myself and the buyer). I wrote the buyer a message kindly saying, that we were sorry to hear that they were dissapointed, but we couldnt refund under remorse returns, but out of goodwill offered them a gift voucher for a dollar amount.

The next day, the buyer then opened an ebay return. I rang ebay again, asking for advice. This ebay rep said "Im advising you to accept the return case". I explained what was told to me the day prior and asked why? She said, the information from the previous ebay representative was incorrect. That i should have "no returns" selected as my return policy if i dont want to accept remorse returns. I said but i have those details in my descrtiption. She said, it doesn't matter what is in your description. I said but the last ebay rep said that I COULD have those details in my listing description. And she said that people can return items regardless. I said "i understand that if the item was not as described or faulty that they could but for remorse"?

She said "dont worry sir, the return case won't affect your selling account or receiving money immediately on your account. You don't have to pay for return shipping, just accept the return and process it and the buyer will pay for the return shipping and re-stocking fee". She added "if you don't accept, the buyer may raise it with us and thats when you get penalized/strike". I said to her "In other words i don't even have a choice?"... no comment. I was annoyed, dissapointed and confused. I felt like I was in a corner as everything I was led to believe was made up of BS. I said to the ebay rep "who do i believe?"

Reluctantly, I hit "accept" on the return case. Immediately it said "SELLER TO PAY FOR SHIPPING". I was not happy obviously. I called eBay again, and said "why do i have to pay?" The eBay rep said "sorry sir you've already pressed accept on the return" so you have to do what it says. At this point, I was ready to throw something. "The last person said blah blah"... he then told me to hold to speak to a supervisor.

While waiting I'm thinking, how hard is this? Is this really the issue for returns on eBay? Does eBay support their Buyers I wonder. I'm thinking, how easy is it for a buyer to make up something, and get a return....

The ebay rep comes back and says "sir try sending a message to your buyer asking them to pay, you should be able to negotiate". And I simply said "what if they DONT want to pay?" He replied, then you must pay shipping as you've accepted. I said "you know what, this is really bad" It seems no one at eBay is helpful, and eBay, over my first return, is not for the seller at all.

I sent the buyer the return address, in the "hope" that they will return (again thinking to myself "do i have to hope that i can get  a return honoured by eBay... is it hit and miss and so contradicting and confussing everytime?)

Later that evening, I have a sale on eBay. Approx $350. I look at PayPal account, I see the transaction.... but no funds. I call PayPal to ask what the situation is. They say (and this is the icing on the cake) "we are sorry but eBay haven't allowed the funds to be released to you as you have a dispute case against you". I said, I have a return in progress, but I was explicitly told that this WOULD NOT affect anything on my selling and my good standing for receiving payments. They said "it looks like eBay are holding all funds until the dispute is closed".

So now, 6th of October, I'm wondering if I should even trade on eBay. What a disaster. I've been incredibly cautious. Asked eBay many questions because I want to do the right thing. Only to be penalized and forced into a position where I have no choice in anything. I'm at their mercy. It even looks like my re-stocking fee won't even be honoured.

- How do people trade on eBay if this is the support or runaround?
- Do people find eBay supports buyers in these situations and NOT sellers?
- Does a return policy mean anything?
- Do people have varying results since it could may well depend on the person at eBay who is looking at your case?

- Just seems unethical, where you seek advice, you're given it... to only find you are in a worse position?

It just seems to me that sellers seem to get shafted, in what i would call... a very basic procedure. Under consumer law, a seller does not need to accept a return if its a remorse return (yes its our perogative to make a decision case by case) but it seems eBay doesn't support this?

Any comments much appreciated. Also, IF you have any good tactics on how to deal with returns... I would like to hear it as eBay, so far have not helped me one bit after 3 phone calls and in excess of 2.5 hours on the phone.

[glstockbuyers]

I sell kids toys, playgrounds and outside equipment. Most of these items are  very expensive to ship ($30 to $90 nationally) so in my return policy, I have 14 day returns, 20% restocking fee, buyer pays return postage. I also have extra details in my listing description about not accepting "remorse returns" etc.

I've sold 14 of these on eBay already. One user purchased from me, received the item. Left positive feedback for me, then about a week later noticed the exact same product in a department store for a cheaper price. They wrote to me saying they were "very dissapointed that they found the same product for cheaper and asked for a refund".

I contacted ebay for advive on what to do and they said "you are okay as you don't need to refund remorse returns". So they suggested to write back to the user saying, that unfortunately you can't do remorse returns. I asked if this would affect my account, they said "no" as since it would be a remorse return (the person read the msgs between myself and the buyer). I wrote the buyer a message kindly saying, that we were sorry to hear that they were dissapointed, but we couldnt refund under remorse returns, but out of goodwill offered them a gift voucher for a dollar amount.

The next day, the buyer then opened an ebay return. I rang ebay again, asking for advice. This ebay rep said "Im advising you to accept the return case". I explained what was told to me the day prior and asked why? She said, the information from the previous ebay representative was incorrect. That i should have "no returns" selected as my return policy if i dont want to accept remorse returns. I said but i have those details in my descrtiption. She said, it doesn't matter what is in your description. I said but the last ebay rep said that I COULD have those details in my listing description. And she said that people can return items regardless. I said "i understand that if the item was not as described or faulty that they could but for remorse"?

She said "dont worry sir, the return case won't affect your selling account or receiving money immediately on your account. You don't have to pay for return shipping, just accept the return and process it and the buyer will pay for the return shipping and re-stocking fee". She added "if you don't accept, the buyer may raise it with us and thats when you get penalized/strike". I said to her "In other words i don't even have a choice?"... no comment. I was annoyed, dissapointed and confused. I felt like I was in a corner as everything I was led to believe was made up of BS. I said to the ebay rep "who do i believe?"

Reluctantly, I hit "accept" on the return case. Immediately it said "SELLER TO PAY FOR SHIPPING". I was not happy obviously. I called eBay again, and said "why do i have to pay?" The eBay rep said "sorry sir you've already pressed accept on the return" so you have to do what it says. At this point, I was ready to throw something. "The last person said blah blah"... he then told me to hold to speak to a supervisor.

While waiting I'm thinking, how hard is this? Is this really the issue for returns on eBay? Does eBay support their Buyers I wonder. I'm thinking, how easy is it for a buyer to make up something, and get a return....

The ebay rep comes back and says "sir try sending a message to your buyer asking them to pay, you should be able to negotiate". And I simply said "what if they DONT want to pay?" He replied, then you must pay shipping as you've accepted. I said "you know what, this is really bad" It seems no one at eBay is helpful, and eBay, over my first return, is not for the seller at all.

I sent the buyer the return address, in the "hope" that they will return (again thinking to myself "do i have to hope that i can get  a return honoured by eBay... is it hit and miss and so contradicting and confussing everytime?)

Later that evening, I have a sale on eBay. Approx $350. I look at PayPal account, I see the transaction.... but no funds. I call PayPal to ask what the situation is. They say (and this is the icing on the cake) "we are sorry but eBay haven't allowed the funds to be released to you as you have a dispute case against you". I said, I have a return in progress, but I was explicitly told that this WOULD NOT affect anything on my selling and my good standing for receiving payments. They said "it looks like eBay are holding all funds until the dispute is closed".

So now, 6th of October, I'm wondering if I should even trade on eBay. What a disaster. I've been incredibly cautious. Asked eBay many questions because I want to do the right thing. Only to be penalized and forced into a position where I have no choice in anything. I'm at their mercy. It even looks like my re-stocking fee won't even be honoured.

- How do people trade on eBay if this is the support or runaround?
- Do people find eBay supports buyers in these situations and NOT sellers?
- Does a return policy mean anything?
- Do people have varying results since it could may well depend on the person at eBay who is looking at your case?

- Just seems unethical, where you seek advice, you're given it... to only find you are in a worse position?

It just seems to me that sellers seem to get shafted, in what i would call... a very basic procedure. Under consumer law, a seller does not need to accept a return if its a remorse return (yes its our perogative to make a decision case by case) but it seems eBay doesn't support this?

Any comments much appreciated. Also, IF you have any good tactics on how to deal with returns... I would like to hear it as eBay, so far have not helped me one bit after 3 phone calls and in excess of 2.5 hours on the phone.

[401ev]

welcome to the no help or support for small sellers on ebay i wish that all small sellers would stop selling for one month in protest but that wont happen , the big names are on board now and they are looked after bigw, the good guys  etc. and they are the only ones that matter to ebay along with outsourcing customer support to the phillipines worst thing to happen for sellers not an ounce of common sence

[audistarelectronics]

Hi, once you hit that accept return button, it is as good as your signature allowing the return and thats with you wearing the lot. Ebay is all set up to help scamming buyers rip off good sellers and get away with it. There are no humans looking at each and every case, until you get them on the phone, it is all computer based and by the time you call and try to get things corrected, too late they say, cannot overide the computer system. Everything will be ''your fault'' with no ''get out of gaol card for the seller. I copped a fraudulent return case recently, and no longer sell on Ebay, after 9 good years.  Many more sellers jumping ship at the moment also.

[heihachi_73]

eBay wouldn't even notice if small sellers had suddenly vanished, they have been trying to get rid of them for the past decade. What they get in profits is a p!ss in the ocean compared to selling brand new items worth between three and ten figures. They want small sellers and second hand items to move to Gumtree so eBay can compete with Amazon selling only brand new goods, and only those which are highly fashionable and "trending", with eBay simply becoming an internet front for the big box stores.

We don't need to protest by disappearing for a month when eBay themselves does it for us, otherwise known as "lights off" mode. In some cases, lights off can be for even longer than a month with between zero and three sales a week and suddenly "I need to post 6 items" shows up out of nowhere and it's back to selling regularly for the next week! For some sellers, removing everything from their eBay account for a month could even put them below standard and practically end their selling career once eBay puts more and more restrictions on their account in a vicious circle.

[digital*ghost]

The second rep was correct - if you have your return policy set to accept returns, it is eBay policy that you are obliged to accept returns for any reason, including remorse returns (you can make it conditional, eg the items have to be unopened / unused etc, but you can't contradict the policy by stating that it's for faulty goods only or somesuch, since consumer laws and buyer's right to refunds still apply in those cases and a buyer will still be able to open a return request for items not as described, damaged etc).

Soon, remorse or change of mind returns will be accepted automatically on your behalf if you have it set to buyer pays return shipping, so yes - if you do not wish to accept such returns, your policy needs to be switched to no returns (note, a buyer can still initiate a change of mind return request when you have no returns accepted, but you can decline them).

Since the return request came up as seller pays return shipping, it sounds like the buyer may have opened an item not as described case, as sellers are obliged to pay return shipping for those, and restocking fees can not be applied, even if implemented. Because this is the kind of dispute where the blame is automatically and indiscriminately (in a certain sense of the word) placed on the seller, it may also explain why they've put further restrictions on your PayPal funds.

Check the reason the buyer gave for the return to verify if they have opened the wrong type of return, eg if they said it arrived damaged or something like that. If it does, call eBay back, get them to look through the messages you exchanged previously with the buyer where they stated explicitly that they wanted to return because they found it cheaper, which is most definitely a change of mind return, and that you want explicit instructions to follow to ensure your change of mind return policies are applied properly (buyer pays return shipping, 20% restocking fee applied). 

I know it's extremely frustrating to deal with, even at the best of times and with competent customer support, but the best thing you can do is remain calm, polite and consistent with eBay, while reminding them that you have followed their advice to ensure your store policies were upheld and it is unacceptable for them to force you into complying with a different set of policies due to their incorrect advice. Also ask for the information they provide to you in conversation to be copied and sent to you in an email, so that there is written record of the advice and information they have provided, as it makes it much easier to refer future reps to that and insist they hold true to their word.

[glstockbuyers]

Just want to say thanks to all the good people here who read this post and have taken the time to provide some really thorough feedback. I greatly appreciate that I am acting on some of this advice and I'll come back with further details. I'm new-ish to eBay, but not new to business. Out of interest, does eBay look through any of these forums? Or is basically just a place for members to gather/share info etc?

[heihachi_73]

Some eBay reps do, but the forums are not controlled by eBay itself. All posts are cached on Google etc. too so it's fairly public.

[*tippy*toes*]

Welcome to eBay selling, where sellers are treated like they've just been scraped off the bottom of your shoe and buyers can do no wrong. This buyer knew what they were doing. They knew if their demands weren't met, they could then lie and eBay would believe them. I don't have anything else to add to what DG wrote. She summed it up perfectly. Don't forget to change your return policy to no returns and add that buyer to your blocked buyer list.

Please keep us posted. There are plenty of sellers here who are fed up to the back teeth with scamming buyers (and eBay encourages them).

[glstockbuyers]

Digital Ghost, good advice. I actaully sent eBay an email (long winded). Articulated my case, very thoroughly. I eventually had a call from ebay escalations dept. In my favour, she is actually going to message the buyer stipulating that the item must be returned  at their expense. She also is overseeing the outcome. I don't see it as a seller vs buyer, but I definitely don't see it fair/ethical that a buyer incorrectly creates a return case on false pretences. So sellers, make sure you WRITE in to eBay, as DigitalGhost mentioned, get them to send an email of the conversation. I have received an email of the conversation. We as sellers (and buyers) are held accountable, and its also "fair" that ebay is also held accountable to their part in all this (after all they are getting their cut).

Stick by your guns, but don't lose your nut. (it was very difficult I must admit)

1. Speak to someone in escalations.
2. Get it in writing.
3. Keep your head (although i was extremely **bleep**) they appreciated that i didnt verbally go off my rocker.

Still going through the motions, but I did accept the return (even on ill advice). Lesson learned. But if I get any difficult cases like this again, I will most definitely write a cool calm email to ebay so they have it in writing which formalises it. I recorded the conversation, for my records but I think it might be on it's way to being solved - I hope.

I'll keep the group here updated. But again, I REALLY appreciate the comments and understanding. Seems like we all have been bitten by this one way or another. Either a scam buyer or seller. I honestly want to try and do my part in making the community better.

Cheers fellow ebayers.

[*tippy*toes*]

It all sounds positive in theory, but please don't start popping champagne corks yet. If the buyer gets the chance to escalate the case (i.e ask eBay to step in and help), then immediately they will get a full refund AND get to keep the item. Who knows, maybe that's their plan? Then, you'll get a strike on your account for an unresolved issue.

If you contact eBay again, it's highly likely that you will get conflicting information. The robots read off a script and often get confused and give the wrong info. They have no real idea of the rules and regulations of eBay. That's why this forum is so useful because members DO know the rules and regulations of eBay!