Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

[nannymoos]

We sold a set of 6 Chairs at the beginning of December - buyer paid via Paypal - 1 month later we receive a chargeback for "unauthorsied Use of Card Card" we immediately phone the buyer who denied lodging this - tried to tell us her paypal account must have been hacked - she promised to phone them and her bank to sort this out but hasnt done so - she will not answer calls or texts from us - rang Paypal and lodged the claim and heard back tonight that we lost the claim due to no proof of delivery - the claim was never for item not received - I sent copies of text messages from her arranging pickup - I have lodged a claim with Financial Ombudsman as well - Paypal have charged back $3010 so our account has a negative balance that includes a $15 fee - I have checked her out on Facebook and she has photos of her family sitting on the chairs - should police be the next step as she is obviously just trying to get away with getting the chairs for nothing - I will add that as we are a retail store I have now arranged with Ebay to have Paypal removed as a payment option and will never accept payments through them again - has anyone else had a similar problem and how did you deal with it ?

[davewil1964]

If you accept credit card payments you will still be exposed to chargebacks for 'unauthorised use'.

The 'buyer' could well be telling the truth. I believe if somebody goes over their credit limit, banks automatically initiate chargebacks and don't require any input from the cardholder, much less that they return the goods. eBay/Paypal aren't the only institutions that protect the scammer buyer.

[nannymoos]

If the buyer was telling the truth - why isnt she answering calls and messages from us - her excuse of her paypal acount being hacked just doesnt add up as funds can only be returned to the account they came from so if a new bank account was added it wouldnt have worked - and if she went over her limit why did it take the bank a month to do anything about it - it was exactly 1 month after her purchase - all seems very suss to me

[lyndal1838]

Unfortunately I have to agree with Dave......your problem is not with paypal but the entire credit card payment system.

If your buyer had not used paypal but had paid through your Merchant Facility she could still have done a chargeback.

Even if the buyer is correct and she did not initiate the chargeback, now that she is aware of it she should be taking some action to resolve it.

You have the buyer's email address and the photos....send her the photos and tell her that if you do not receive a cash payment for the items you will be reporting her to ACORN and the Police.  Unfortunately reporting her may not get your money back.....you just want to scare her into paying to avoid a police record.

Good luck.

[clarry100]

This is a terrible situation to be in.

Unfortunately another example of why you should try to avoid accepting PayPal payment for pickup items. Cash only preferred.

You have no proof of shipment/delivery to defend such claims. This is what PayPal require to be elligible for seller protection.

The only way I can recommend to do this (for future) would be to take a copy of the drivers licence of the person doing the pickup on the day and to take photographs of the pickup vehicle including the number plates.

If she denies knowing about it but will do nothing to help resolve the matter then I would be lodging a case with The ACORN. This is the Australian Federal Police.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Present them with all your evidence. Messages, pics from Facebook etc. Whatever will support your case that she has the item and your money too. Even the info you have from the PayPal case against you. For the amount of over $3000 I would think they would be very interested. Once you have a case number send this info to the buyer.

I don't think deleting PayPal is a real solution as if you accept credit card payments via any institution or gateway you are subject to these. You actually get more support if its done thru PayPal rather than being on your own up against a bank. Even tho in this case it surely might not appear that way to you. Chargebacks are a fact of life these days even in your retail business.

[magpie5*]

wow, that is really scary. thats a lot of cash.
great suggestion clarry100 be interesting to see how this pans out

[phorum_junkie*]

Police should be your next but one call. First off I would send a snail mail recorded delivery letter telling them that unless they repay the money for the furniture plus the $15 it cost you in bank charges within 48 you will be reporting them to the police and providing copies of the pictures you have found on facebook of them using the furniture (make sure you copy the pictures to your computer).  If they do not repay the money (give them your bank details) then definitely go to the police. If they are close to you try your local police station, insist on at least a crime number to show it has been reported but if they won't take it further report on line through ACORN.

This has been reported as happening a handful of times on the boards and in most cases a threat of police action or a 'friendly' visit from the local constabulary was enough.

I am not recommending it but one buyer messaged a scammer that he was sending a few of his mates who rode bikes and loved baseball round to discuss it with them. They paid up VERY quickly.

If a buyer wanted to pay with Paypal for a pick up item I would insist on photo id with their address which I would photocopy onto a receipt, one copy for them and one for me both signed. I would also take a pic of their number plate preferably while the stuff was being loaded.

[kopenhagen5]

Send off another message- 

Seeing as there is no reply from you and we have lost over $3,000 I am forced to give your details to ACORN.

Unless there is some positive action from yourself or your bank within 24 hours that is the course of action I need to take.

And include a link to ACORN - https://www.acorn.gov.au/

[kingfisher.curiosity.shop]

Nothing paid for with Paypal should be allowed to be picked up or delivered. 

It is cleary stated on Paypal to have tracking / shipping records.

Next thing to do is to go to their local Police station and make a report. Take all your evidence with you. Drop off a copy to the buyer in person- ask the Police to accompany you. They may say no. Doesnt matter. Show the buyer you will take action to get your money back.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@kingfisher.curiosity.shop wrote:

Nothing paid for with Paypal should be allowed to be picked up or delivered. 

It is cleary stated on Paypal to have tracking / shipping records.

Next thing to do is to go to their local Police station and make a report. Take all your evidence with you. Drop off a copy to the buyer in person- ask the Police to accompany you. They may say no. Doesnt matter. Show the buyer you will take action to get your money back.

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PayPal do now cover pickup items (there are some conditions).  Shipping is no longer compulsory for buyers to have protection.

There was a thread about it when it was announced by PayPal