eBay international business is to hard to control. lost item , money and even postage

[ivansnow19630]

Had a sale to Germany customer last month, tracking showed delivered at Germany but later on it got returned to me, Germany customer kept saying he didn't get notifaction from his lpo but we asked AusPost and they said it is because buyer didn't collect parcel on time frame, eBAY Germany want us to be the victim of this deal even though we had nothing wrong with it, they stated there's likely to be a chance with PO'S FAULT but the seller should bear the cost after all. 

The international freight is $30, we just lost it. and the item we never got it back but have to offer a full amount of refund 

we spent 2 hours to talk with eBay AU and they kicked us to eBay Germany, have you had such an issue before? If so how did you end up with?

[annieoakley2000]

It's very hard to deal with international transactions if something goes wrong.

Postal services vary greatly from country to country; e.g in the Netherlands post offices don't even seem to exist anymore; if you want to send a parcel it is done at the supermarket (!), so who knows who is in control of the postal carding system in Germany ......

If you say the item was being returned to you - it might still turn up as the Post office in Germany most likely sends it back via the cheapest postal method, which could take months.

Of course that is no consolation to you as you already lost a big chunk of money in overseas postage alone, but fingers crossed the item may still turn up ......

Having said that it is probably best not to entertain overseas transactions with expensive postage anymore; keep your sales within Australia - it is difficult enough to deal with Australia Post at times, let alone an overseas mail provider !!

[jellybirddesigns]

I'm confused whether you got the item back - in the first sentence you say it was returned, but later on you say you never got it back. Which is it?

Since you have tracking you can see where it is.

[digital*ghost]

Germany is now a particularly problematic country to send to - for many sellers, it would be worth excluding them from their shipping destinations.

It's possible there were customs charges (VAT) applicable that the buyer didn't pay - check the tracking number on the Deutsche Post website (or a universal tracking site, like 17Track or Trackitonline), as Australia Post will update to 'delivered' for events that aren't actually delivered, while the destination country's website will usually reflect the proper status and hopefully show if there were charges applied. 

Germany is part of the EU, which means the buyer does have the right of withdrawl on any purchase as part of the EU's Distance Selling Regulations, and if they do cancel, they are entitled to a full refund of the money, including postage, however the buyer must submit a request to cancel the transaction, so simply refusing to pay VAT / collect the parcel and it being RTS is not an official withdrawl or cancellation - which I mention because you may be advised that the regulations can be applied in these kinds of circumstances, and it's good to know how to respond. (That is, if they try to pull the "the buyer has a right to cancel" card, you need to know that this doesn't count as a cancellation). 

Germany is particularly problematic now that they have passed new laws requiring all sellers to be registered and licensed  with regards to the packaging that's used to send items there in a commercial capacity (no matter how many packages they send there - be it one a year, or several a week). The law officially came into play on the 1st of January, with a couple months grace period, but from what I've read, began to be enforced from the 1st of March - it doesn't sound like this affected your parcel, so I'm just mentioning it as you need either a VAT or EORI number to register, and it costs an annual fee to be able to comply with the regulations, hence why I suggest a lot of sellers might want to consider excluding Germany (I started a thread a couple of weeks ago, which contains more info: https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/Shipping-to-Germany-and-Packaging-Regulations/m-p/2220521#M...).

I'm assuming the package hasn't been delivered back to you - it can take a couple of months for international parcels to arrive back sometimes, as they go by the cheapest possible route, which often means sea mail. 

Edited to add: I forgot the most important bit  the buyer refusing to collect the parcel voids their buyer protection though ebay. 

[jellybirddesigns]

I sell to Germany on a regular basis from both Ebay and another site and the only requirement I carry out is to make sure there is an invoice on the outside of the package so that Customs can open it to see the value of the items. Usually a small Ziplock bag taped on 3 sides works for me.

Digi is right though - buyers in the EU do have the right to cancel and get their money back for any reason, but they do have to advise you in writing and not collecting something from the PO doesn't count.

[digital*ghost]

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@jellybirddesigns wrote:

I sell to Germany on a regular basis from both Ebay and another site and the only requirement I carry out is to make sure there is an invoice on the outside of the package so that Customs can open it to see the value of the items. Usually a small Ziplock bag taped on 3 sides works for me.

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You should check into the new regulations - there is the potential of packages being destroyed, and / or extremely high fines if sellers don't comply with them (I'm talking up to $200k euros). 

[jellybirddesigns]

To be honest, if Ebay hasn't put out anything official for their sellers to be compliant, I'm not going to worry about it.

I send mostly large letters anyway and I doubt that Germany has the jurisdiction to fine people in Australia like myself 200K in Euros - it wouldn't be worth their time or effort.

[digital*ghost]

They can control what makes it into the hands of their citizens, though. 

[jellybirddesigns]

From further reading I understand that it only applies if you actively sell on a German-based platform.

From one of the forums:

You need to have a presence in the German marketplace to be required to register. So if you are not listing on amazon.de then don’t worry.

If someone in Germany buys from you from Amazon.com.au then you just treat them as a normal customer and send the item. If you list on Amazon.de then you need to register.

You need to have some sort of business presence in Germany to be required. So having stock in Germany, listing on German portals of sites, advertising in Germany etc.

People in Germany will still be able to buy from Alibaba and every seller on alibaba will NOT need to register because they are not active in the German marketplace.

[digital*ghost]

Copy and pasted from Ecommercebytes, the reply from a representative of the German-British Chamber of Industry and Commerce, when asked if selling on Etsy, a non-German site but was accessible to Germans, meant they had to register:

"The new German Packaging Law has abolished minimum quantities, so sending even just one commercial parcel obliges you to register for the packaging licence.

Registration is done in two steps: registration with LUCID, the central packaging database (free) and signing up to a dual recycling scheme (they will charge a fee which will depend on the type and quantity of packaging; very small quantities will attract the minimum fee).
We work with these two schemes and their webshops cater for small amounts:

https://portal.gruener-punkt.de/onlinedsd/f?p=200:81


You would have to estimate your packaging quantities for each material per year and then pay the fee. At the beginning of the next year, you need to report your actual packaging quantities to both the recycling scheme and to LUCID.

You are quite right that the law applies to anyone who introduces commercial sales packaging to the German market, not just German companies. This includes foreign exporters, and (thanks to the abolishment of minimum quantities) even small online retailers.

As for registration with LUCID, as far as we’re aware, you don’t need to put in a VAT number but can put your tax number instead. It will ask for a company registration number, however. At this stage you need to select “other” and then put “none” in the fields asking for the name and issuing authority."

(Note: the sender of the original equiry is based in the UK, so they have a valid tax number)