taxation

[lmckec2009]

I believe ebay recently was asked by the tax dept to give details of sellers selling over $10,000 p.a. ( it used to be $20,000)

My postage is often $300-$400 per month if ebay includes the postage as a sales amount (now they have changed the rules)

Lots of us with much less than $10,000 actual sales will be on that list.

Thoughts please  

[ejholden1963]

From a high contact in a low place .... or a low contact in a high place ... (compliance)

The ATO require that the data provided by ebay is true & accurate, Ebay's Australian officer has to statutory declare to this.

The only way ebay is able to comply is based on the FVF charged during the requested period.

This is why data from no fee sites like Gumtree & particularly quicksales is not requested.

Prior to the introduction of shipping FVF, the data was based on sale value FVF.

It will now be provided on total (sale + shipping) FVF as it automatically includes ALL income stream.

A bit of a catch there for those who boost shipping costs ....

I was also advised of a little reminder ....

The Dept of Human Services (formerly known as Centrelink) has full information sharing with the ATO. Any non declared income, even "schnitzel money", that is uncovered is forwarded on to the Centrelink recovery compliance officers who have more staff & more severe penalties than the ATO.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

"The ATO require that the data provided by ebay is true & accurate,

Prior to the introduction of shipping FVF, the data was based on sale value FVF.

It will now be provided on total (sale + shipping) FVF as it automatically includes ALL income stream."

I don't understand your rationale given that the ATO have not changed ebay reporting requirements save for the $ figure being reduced.

It would appear that the shipping component should always have been included in the income total whether ebay charged a FVF on that component or not is superflous as it was prior to the change and still is now considered income by the ATO.

If an ebay member sells a car on ebay then the FVF charged is $60. Whether the car sells for $1 or $100 000 is superflous except that the $100000 sale will mean ebay will inform the ATO because the reporting ceiling had been reached and surpassed.

So it would have been impossible for your statement to be true that prior to the changes ATO reported turnover was based on FVF charged on sale price only because  the Motors final value fee has no correlation to the actual income figure.

AFAIK ebay does not differentiate between private vehicle sellers and commercial vehicle sellers. (if they did there would be one big loophole in the ATO reporting procedure previously ....and that ebay compliance officer must not have valued his sig on the stat dec)

Many  sellers in the Motors section sell new grey import trikes and quads. If they sell 300 quads in a year @ 1000 each inc freight then their turnover is 300 000 and their FVF component is $18 000. How could the ATO (or ebay for that matter) extrapolate from the $18000 k FVF figure that the seller turned over 300k?

Throw a heap of 9.9% fvf for the spare parts sold on the same account and the yearly FVF figure has no correlation at all to the turnover......

[asporty]

I checked with ebay and they have confirmed that all income will be reported to ATO now, sale+postage. Starting June they say.

Threshold is still $20,000 per year and ebay will report only sellers with incomes above this level. Seems like this is an ATO requirement and not set by ebay.

[davewil1964]

Go with it.

eBay has announced, however, that the reporting will be for $10k in any of the last 2 years.

[harley_babes_hoard]

Actually the tax free threshold is 18,200 however ebay use to report sellers with sales over 20,000, which has now been reduced to 10,000. Yes ebay figures never used to include postage costs.

[asporty]

Here is what I received from ebay a couple of days ago:

"the ATO reporting level has not dropped to $10,000.00. It is still at $20,000.00."

Can anyone refer to the date and wording of ebay announcement that mentioned drop to $10K. 

[lane-ends]

In principle ATO are interested in money turnover. That is money comming prior to any deductions (eg postage). The postage is now included in reporting mainly because the mechanism is now in place by Ebay to record it more easily. It was excluded before simply because it wasn't processed via the Ebay system. 

Will this boost number of sellers having details given to ATO? Yes. But ATO will still only be auditing the same number of people. They just have a bigger sample to pick from. This may mean they will be able to pick up more obviously dodgy sellers rather than less dodgy ones. Keep in mind it will not just be Ebay activity alone that will get sellers on the audit list, it will be only one component in the deciding factor. Unless of course you are selling thousands and declaring nothing.

I still reckon that threshold is just a "shot across the bow" to let us know they are watching.

I wonder if your paypal account will ever be reported to ATO? Can't see how, but never say never.

[go-tazz]

Here is the full "story",

It has been $10,000 for the last two finacial years, :   ATO Online selling data matching

[ejholden1963]

G'day Colic,

It's all about ebay & protecting  their "Only A Venue" defense, particularly in the US.

It's a worldwide issue and it's about  the factual data that ebay compile as part of their normal operating structure. As a 3rd party to a transaction, anything they don't generate a fee on is not legally classed as fact and is open to dispute by the 1st Party, the seller.

The Statutory authorities who want their tax cut cannot enforce onerous reporting requirements on non-liable corporate entities, particularly foreign owned ones. Ebay is Swiss registered. Thus, the IRS, HMRC & ATO cannot force ebay to compile & report on data outside ebay's core stream.

So, while "It would appear that the shipping component should always have been included in the income total whether ebay charged a FVF on that component or not"  the statutories couldn't force ebay to record & report on it.

You also have to look outside Au & it's piddly 5,000,000 registered users & look at the US & UK with their 50,000,000+ active registered sellers & the $Billions being moved around the globe every year.

Ebay has developed & instituted roll out of it's shipping FVF policy in the US, the UK, & now Au.

For ebay, the results are worth the development cost & dramas.

They have fixed the fee manipulation issue.

They ignore the seller "noise" & weather any buyer reaction because Amazon proved the sky will not fall.

They enjoy reporting higher turnover figures & eventually higher profits to Wall St.

But ..... of utmost importance to ebay, they show the Statutories that they are working with them & being a good Global Corporate Citizen, thereby getting Congress, 46 US States, HMRC and that piddly little mob downunder, the ATO who want that tax cut, off their back & putting the onus back on the Statutory & the relevant seller.

Ebay remain in the clear & protect that critical "only a venue" defense for without it, all their carefully crafted legal protection in the US dissipates and they become totally vulnerable to the noise ....

[ejholden1963]

Onya go-tazz ....

I've been trying to find that page ....

• the data owner tracks the activity of registered sellers
• or the administrative or financial cost of collecting the data exceeds the benefit the data may provide, the data owner may be excluded from the program.

One of the reasons why quicksales became a fee free site ..... It cost more to comply than the fees were worth .....  

lane-ends,

I thought I gave a good enough hint in my original post .....

I was also advised of a little reminder ....

The Dept of Human Services (formerly known as Centrelink) has full information sharing with the ATO. Any non declared income, even "schnitzel money", that is uncovered is forwarded on to the Centrelink recovery compliance officers who have more staff & more severe penalties than the ATO.