Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

Recent exeriences that I made and which were confirmed by friends and family members made me post here.
The reason is the increasing amount of sellers trying to take advantage of unsuspecting buyers.

Ebay introduced a better buyer protection and in some ways it works as advertised.
But with the easy option to solve a deal gone wrong troubles come too.
Increasing numbers of fraudulent sellers slip through through the Ebay detection system.
Sadly this is also supported by a flawed feedback system - which I was assured will be fixed.

To make the problem a bit clearer I will give you some examples of the new dodgy pratices:

1: A seller states a local location and fast, local shipping.
Right after the sale you get a message informing you that there is a delay for one reason or another.
Whatever reason given none of the seller's listings are updated to reflect the much longer shipping times.
And once it finally arrives at your doorstep you have the choice of two surprises.
a) The seller did post it just a day or two before you got it.
b) The item came directly from Asia.
In either case the tem was ordered from Asia after you paid for it.
Depending on the country you are in this can also result in troubles with your tax department if import duties were avoided.

2: A seller just tries to avoid shipping at all.
A few sellers now pop up again with xmas on the way trying to make a quick buck.
To save money they list a bunch of items they actually don't have.
Once all or most is sold and paid for they do a bulk order and re-ship or let it ship directly to you.
And as things here love to go wrong a seller sometimes never gets the item you paid for as now his buy in price is suddenly higher...

3: Group sellers....
I really hate them but there seems to be no way to stop them.
Some people set up multiple accounts to sell items.
Especially the Asian sellers seem to love involving their entire family with Ebay accounts and stores.
In some cases you can spot them, like when ordering a lot of electronics parts from a long list of different sellers.
Checking your Paypal account later often shows the same account popping up multiple times but originating from different Ebay sellers.
To add insult to the injury you might also get discount coupons from all of them to promote yet another store they have.
The problem I have with them is that the seller just disappears once feedback goes bad.
The listings come back with identical images, descriptions and even typos.

4: Multi-item listings...
Sure it makes sense to have this feature, but certainly not just as a promotional tool for dodgy sellers.
Sort by price and do a search electronics and you get endless amounts of dirt cheap results popping up.
Your high end keyboard seems to cost just a few bucks but when you check the listing then you have a drop down menu.
A mouse pad, dust cover or whatever is making the price shown in the search result but not the item you searched for.
Real sellers with the dignitiy to provide real prices appear far down the list - after all the highly promoted power sellers and stores....
If I search for a keyboard or phone and the listing shows this in the title and image than I expect to get the corresponding price.
If I would want to find a mousepad or dust cover I would search for it instead myself...

5: Misleading and fraudulent listings....
Especially when searching for phones, tablets or laptops you often get to see certain terms popping up.
Things like "manufacturer refurbished", "seller refurbished", "as new condition", "no visible marks"....
Sadly they do not mean a thing for most sellers unless it is a really private seller and not a store.
As for the multi item listings, searching for a brand new device also gives you these dodgy results with their drop down selections to choose from.
The fineprint or explanation for the terms used is clear as a good pea soup.
Real images are never provided, so you can't judge what you get until you actually have it.
If I take the listing pictures and think the "near new condition" looks awesome than I expect to get what I saw.
Sadly it is common to get polished surfaces that seem to look great, well until you get light sideways on them and see the wobble from the polished off scratches and marks.

6: Language suddenly lost...
Sometimes you have no other options and need to order something from an overseas seller.
The funny thing here is that quite often your questions before the buy are answered with great passion and detail.
No matter how complex your questions are the seller will do the best to make you feel happy.
Once you paid however and found a problem using your device due to not having a manual or even a way to get it working...
"Please provide pictures", We are sorry to hear this....", "We can't understand the problem, can you provide a video?"....
All of a sudden even the most basic english fails to make sense to the seller.
Some then even revert to online translators and make even less sense.
I wonder why a seller how is incapable of using english is allowed to sell on english Ebay sites...

The list goes on but some of you might already know from experience what I mean.
But why is that such a problem as the new buyer protection in almost all cases will help you to get your item or the money back?
Imagine someone operates a dodgy car selling business where the cars just look godd but wouldn't not really pass a proper safety check or similar.
This car yard would close down quite quickly once ripped off customers start legal actions.
For dodgy Ebay sellers the added buyer protection also means (at least for now) added seller protection.
If you come to an agreement with the seller that ends in a refund than you have to make sure you left your negative feedback before you get the refund.
Once refunded the item disapears from your history and only after quite some searching you can find the record of the actual transaction.
This one you can give feedback for in whatever way you like but it won't affect or reach the seller.
Even if a refund was issued through the use of the resolution center you can not leave feedback that makes it to a permanent record in the sellers feedback history.
A big flaw that I hope will be addressed soon.

Tracking info is often misused for a better rating too.
A bogus number that does not work for anything is provided.
But again you have no option to complain to Ebay about this in any easy way.

The feedback system itself is now quite outdated and really unflexible.
Sure nice stars and a short text make things easy but they fail to cover what really count when deals go bad.
You have to select if an item arrived on time or not but you can not state that said item was falsely listed with local shipping.
Same for the actual posting stuff, if free postage was offered you can't give any rating for it all and the seller gets full stars automatically.
If paying a few bucks for postage means getting an item in a few days instead of waiting a few weeks for it than this makes a big difference.
Negative feedback I left quite often disappeared quickly if it made it to the seller feedback page at all.
In recent years the amount of negative feedback visible seems to go down big time, especially for pricey items.
But following certain sellers with increasing negative feedback show the real reason.
They just disappear once the feedback goes too bad and start over with a fresh account.
Quite often even by using the same Paypal credentials as with the old account.
With no option to add a revised feedback like for quickly breaking of failing things it is even harder.

Here is how I would see a better protection system:
Items must be ready to ship right after they are listed.
No matter which shipping option or system is used a real proof of actually lodging the item must be presented.
A simple click to say you posted it is not enough to prevent fraud.
All items over a certain price limit must require tracking info and signature on delivery.
This is good for all involved!
Paypal is highly used throughout Ebay and the recommended payment option, so use it properly for crying out loud!
How hard can it be to check your databases for Paypal accounts linked to multiple Ebay ID's or linked to suspended or abandoned accounts?
Same for the need of providing a real and confirmed address for sellers.
Fake Paypal accounts, unregistered sim cards for their mobile phone numbers and only a P.O. used - this is a standard to promote fraud, so it has to improve!
Feedback must appear instantly and stay permantly without the option to render it private.
Feedback with no real info is no feedback at all, especially for the few negative feedbacks that make it through.
People give negative feedback for a good reason, so don't allow a seller to have it removed or reduced.
Postage must be done right after getting the money, within 2 working days as a limit.
If more time required then this must be made clear in the listing and during the checkout.
An option to report overseas shipping or greatly ignored posting times need to be added to the feedback system.
With all the ongoing and still increasing problems it might be best to just provide a dedicated button to activate a chat when leaving feedback.
This way all relevant info is right there to check and some real person can check where the computer failed to spot the problem in the system.

International entries....
When it comes to certain items Ebay is indeed very strict on what is allowed and what is not.
Be it waepons, especially of the hidden kind, certain chemicals, foods or even stuff related to past wars.
However when it comes consumer safety Ebay seems to look away.
It is quite common to get search results from overseas sellers.
And of course it a good thing to see that you can get you water fountain for your fish pond for half the price.
But then you get a power adapter that would not pass any of your local safety standards.
If not worse still and you just get a thingy to put between the adapter and your power outlet.
Where all electrical items sold by a local store in your country need to pass strict requirements and safety checks, Asian products do not need to pass this.
If a seller is allowed to list a product in another country or to import it then the seller shall be required to meet the local standards for electrical, mechanical and user safety.
LED lights that let direct mains voltage leak out to the LED's are available by the truck load.
Same for power adapters that have no overvoltage or other safety features included, quite often they even come with faked certification labels on the product.
People with the requirement to follow safety guidelines are often forced to pay more than the actual item price just to get a certified power adapter for their new device.
And if these dodgy adapters cause a houe fire then who is to blame?
Everyone will point to the person who used it but not the selling platform that allowed the hazardous product to enter the local market and bypassing all required safety checks.

As you can see it really could go on and on....
If protection for the buyer is taken serious then we are still very far away from a good working system.
With little to no option to actually highlight these problems the only way is to post them here in the hope Ebay wakes up and starts to see the same problems.
Money making is good, real protection where it counts and where users can benefit from it is better.
Just 3% of really dodgy deals would not mean muchm unless you consider the size of the platform and how much money this relates to.
3% from illions of deals do add up to quite a large number, even just 1% would be still impressive enough.
Buyers need to wake up and get active.
Contact Ebay to inform them about a dodgy deal or seller.
Report fraudulent listings and demand to have them taken down together with the seller.
Use the resolution center and start a claim instead of trying to deal with the seller through endless messages.
Make your negative experience visible to everyone so Ebay gets the help they need to weed out those dodgy sellers and practices.

Message 1 of 22
Latest reply
21 REPLIES 21

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

I hang my head in shame.

 

This post is an authentic Guillotinedโ„ข post.

 

Message 11 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

Long posts need to be spiced up - or snipped.

 

(I tend to go for the spice rather than the snip... or at least I try to do so.)

Message 12 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

You're right in that ebay should weed out problem sellers but if they are in China it isn't going to happen.

 

Overall, I don't think Australian sellers give many problems at all. I've mostly had a glorious run the last few years, but it depends what category of thing you buy, I think.

 

First off though, if you're buying in what I think fo as problem categories (electronics, phones etc) give ebay a big miss. If you can't buy locally at a store, buy from a reputable online company.

 

If you see something you want and it is listed as being in Aust, check out the expected delivery dates. I don't[ know where you live but basically if you're in one of the eastern states & the item is coming from the next state or same state, then any delivery date that is 3 weeks away is rubbish, it's got a big fat question mark over it and it could well be coming from overseas. Just. Don't. Buy.

 

If you see something you fancy, click on the seller's negative feedback. If you see a few that say slow postage or that it came from overseas. Just. Don't. Buy

 

And if you have bought and any seller tries to give you the run around & you suspect delaying tactics, open an item not received claim the day after it was due to arrive.

 

Ebay isn't the only fish in the sea these days, there are loads of other Australian buying sites and you might even find what you want cheaper out there.

Message 13 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....


@parachuter2006 wrote:



Here is how I would see a better protection system:
Items must be ready to ship right after they are listed.
No matter which shipping option or system is used a real proof of actually lodging the item must be presented.
A simple click to say you posted it is not enough to prevent fraud.
All items over a certain price limit must require tracking info and signature on delivery.
This is good for all involved!
Paypal is highly used throughout Ebay and the recommended payment option, so use it properly for crying out loud!
How hard can it be to check your databases for Paypal accounts linked to multiple Ebay ID's or linked to suspended or abandoned accounts?
Same for the need of providing a real and confirmed address for sellers.
Fake Paypal accounts, unregistered sim cards for their mobile phone numbers and only a P.O. used - this is a standard to promote fraud, so it has to improve!
Feedback must appear instantly and stay permantly without the option to render it private.
Feedback with no real info is no feedback at all, especially for the few negative feedbacks that make it through.
People give negative feedback for a good reason, so don't allow a seller to have it removed or reduced.
Postage must be done right after getting the money, within 2 working days as a limit.
If more time required then this must be made clear in the listing and during the checkout.
An option to report overseas shipping or greatly ignored posting times need to be added to the feedback system.
With all the ongoing and still increasing problems it might be best to just provide a dedicated button to activate a chat when leaving feedback.
This way all relevant info is right there to check and some real person can check where the computer failed to spot the problem in the system.



I read through (the vast majority of) your post, and I don't disagree with everything you've said.... But I do want to highlight why good, or even just ok, ideas can sound great in theory, but be awful in practice, especially when it's ebay who are implementing said ideas.

 

The problem with eBay implementing things to protect buyers, is that the worst offenders are never affected. Their policies are like a blind, untrained swordsman who's just standing in the middle of a crowd swinging indiscriminately- occasionally they might hit a "bad" seller, but they take a lot of good ones down as collateral damage. An example is the "did the item arrive by X date" question. A dodgy, or at least less scrupulous, seller will adjust their handling time to give themselves the maximum time allowable for the item to arrive, and / or upload a fake tracking number, making it so that the buyer doesn't even have access to the question and therefore hardly ever gets a 'no', while a seller who is doing their best to do the right thing by their buyers and meets all of their sales terms but is then let down by Aus Post one fateful week might have several buyers say "no", and boom - dodgy seller unaffected, honest seller loses Top Rated status and falls down the eBay search results rankings. 

 

This kind of phenomenon is one of the things that has contributed to the flourishing of said dodgy sellers, and the loss of a bunch who were good and honourable, but just got unlucky, and i can almost guarantee you many of the suggestions you've put forward - which I understand are with the best of intentions - will have a similar effect. (eg I list some handcrafted, made to order items, and many items sent by large letter, ergo it's impossible for me to have all stock ready to ship, and my business would tank if I had to double the cost of postage for a few people's peace of mind).

 

Re:  the no more disappearing neg feedback, and the statement "people leave negative feedback for a reason". Believe it or not, sometimes that reason is just because they are jerks, and / or made a mistake and think just blame the seller because it's easier. I agree that disappearing negative feedback, when provably warranted, has become a bit of an issue on ebay, but applying "no negs removed, ever" gives people in general far too much credit (let's not forget that whatever dodgy behaviours a seller exhibits, it's not because they are a seller, it's because they are a dodgy person, and as such it's not limited to those who sell). 

 

Reasons I have received less than positive feedback as a seller:

 

  • Buyer purchased an item of clothing listed as black, receives item of clothing, leaves me a neg akcnowledging it was black as described, but wanted a purple one
  • Buyer purchases an item listed as two different materials, leaves neg because it's not all one material
  • Countless occasions where buyer has purchased an item with sizing info made abundantly clear, including pictures showing item to scale, leaves bad FB because item is not the size they "imagined" (who imagines item details over reading them? People, I guess Smiley Frustrated )
  • Buyer makes false claim of non arrival, demanding a refund before even the first ETA has passed. I block them from buying from me again, they enlist their friends to buy from me via other accounts to leave me negs

Many other sellers have similar tales to tell, so this is another list that could go on. And on. 

 

Re: electrical safety standards - Australian law dictates it is the importer's responsibility (whether they are a consumer, or intend to resell), to ensure items they purchase from OS meet local standards. eBay does actually have a policy in place that says sellers need to be aware of the laws of the countries they sell into, and not make anything available for sale to a country if it's prohibited, but guess what? They have a similar policy for buyers, in that buyers are not technically permitted to buy items that are prohibited in their country - how about we enforce that one, too. ๐Ÿ˜‰ 

 

 

Message 14 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

With all the ongoing and still increasing problems it might be best to just provide a dedicated button to activate a chat when leaving feedback.
This way all relevant info is right there to check and some real person can check where the computer failed to spot the problem in the system.

 

So who do you suggest pays for that person? The buyer or the seller?

 

I'd go with the buyer; that left for them is irrelevant as it can only be positive, so the buyer leaving feedback would be the only trigger point.

 

That wouldn't be a bad idea - if buyer's had to pay to leave feedback (or at least non-positive), that would certainly show the feedback system in a truer light.

 

 

Message 15 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

Ever noticed sellers with good feed back but absolutely no listings.

Can they perhaps get all their friends and family to put up good feeback while scamming others and getting us to think they are a trusted ebay seller?

I had this happen to me the other day and they accused me of being a scammer after i had asked for a cancellation request.  

I think they get you to buy items which arent even there take your money and claim they sent it to you after months of waiting. 

Message 16 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

Sellers do not necessarily sell all the time.

 

It is perfectly feasible for a seller to have great feedback but only sell for a few months of the year.  Some sellers might only sell during the school terms for instance.

 

You need a bit more evidence of wrongdoing before labelling a seller as a scammer.

 

As much as friends and family may leave good feedback, if there is wrongdoing it will be detected in feedback eventually.

 

Why did you ask for a cancellation.....why did the seller think you were scamming?

 

Message 17 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

Message 18 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

It could be some sort of scam but just ending a listing does not necessarily make it so.

 

But with feedback like that why would you even consider buying from them.

 

You can only be scammed if you let it happen.....be warned by the feedback.

 

Rude feedback does not mean the seller is a scammer.   Over the years I have seen sellers leave extraordinarily rude feedback but they do not scam their buyers.   Again, take warning from the feedback and feedback replies.

 

 

Message 19 of 22
Latest reply

Re: Dodgy sellers and ongoing flaws in the system....

thanks you might be right. just thought weird they was selling cheap phone accs and then suddnely 50 tv's with many negs.
Message 20 of 22
Latest reply