Is it legal for the seller to say they are in Australia and they are overseas

[jackster83]

I only like to buy from Australia, where I live. It is too risky to buy from overseas especially China. But lately sellers from China are saying they are in Australia, and I am not getting my items. Yes, I do get a refund, but the time delays and hassle is making Ebay lose it's charm. How can I tell a fake?

[springyzone]

I think what enigma bear said is the best start. Click on their feedback number, then check out the negs. If slow postage is a factor, it will show up there or in the neutrals. Maybe even in some of the positives, but always check out any negs for any seller, as a matter of course.

A dead give away to my mind is the estimated delivery. If the item is meant to be in Australia and the estimated delivery isn't within a week or 10 days, something is off. Give the ad a closer look to see if there is any possible reason.

I think a lot depends on what you are buying and how much it costs on whether a lot of people go ahead and buy. As countessa said, ebay isn't the spot for some purchases, full stop.

May I just suggest one thing? If you buy something where you later suspect you have been lied to about item location, make an ebay claim immediately, as in as soon as the expected delivery date has passed. Immediately. Then give neg feedback.

And if a small item does arrive a week or two late down the track, and it does turn out it came from overseas OR was posted only a day or so earlier in Aust (which would indicate they waited to receive it from overseas), too bad. Keep it. The only way overseas sellers will at least amend estimated delivery dates is if they are being hit in the hip pocket. And an ETA will generally indicate if it is in this country or not.

[tazzieterror]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

it is however the fault of the buyer when they deliberately ignore warning signs, fail to conduct due (or even any) diligence and rely on eBay's MBG to compensate them for their poor choices. The MBG should be the last resort, not the first.

I was maybe a bit obtuse for you, but eBay's MBG is generally funded by sellers, not eBay.

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No, in the context of the types of sellers being discussed here, it's absolutely not the buyer's fault - eBay's tolerance of misrepresented item locations is the issue.  A buyer should absolutely be able to rely on the basic details - such as the item location - displayed in the listing as being accurate

If a listing shows as being in Australia, it should be in Australia. To make it the buyer's responsibility to investigate and verifiy whether a seller is likely telling the truth is to also expect a brand new eBay user, unaware of any of these potential misrepresentations and buying pitfalls, to somehow instinctively know to check for issues like this before making a purchase.  That would be a ridiculous expectation. Or is it buried somewhere in the terms and conditions when you signup, e.g. "...we at eBay turn a blind eye to deceptive representation of item location for certain demographics of sellers, so...it's up to you to work out which ones are telling the truth..."?

The poor choices here are eBay's, not the buyers'.  eBay choose to turn a blind eye to this behaviour (along with many other behaviours) and compromise the trustworthiness of their buying platform.  It's idiotic.

Yes, of course MBG is funded by sellers, as it well should be, and as a seller myself I have no problem with sellers paying for their own dishonesty through MBG - that seems a pretty sensible arrangement to me.

[comptrub]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

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No, in the context of the types of sellers being discussed here, it's absolutely not the buyer's fault - eBay's tolerance of misrepresented item locations is the issue.  A buyer should absolutely be able to rely on the basic details - such as the item location - displayed in the listing as being accurate

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I certainly agree with that, the point you make is perfectly reasonable, unfortunately though, as you also say, Ebay turns a blind eye to the whole thing, so sadly, new ebayers will be caught out, at least seasoned ebayers will be able to empower themselves with all of this knowledge about Ebay's dodgy practices. It is after all a company owned by Yanks, and to them, and any corporation really, chasing the all mighty dollar is the only thing that matters. If they can bend the rules and get away with it in making more money they'll do everything they can to do just that.

Ebay's Money Back Guarantee isn't worth a pinch of salt considering it expires after 30 days. For instance, if an item fails after 30 days, you've got no chance of relying on their MBG.

Paypal's policy is also rather weak, I advise anyone to read this article by Choice, https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/online-shopping/buying-online/articles/paypal-buyer-protection

Essentially, PayPal's terms and conditions for the Buyer Protection rule out any liability should they be unable to get the money back from the seller, so you lose out. There may be instances where Paypal will recover the costs by their goodwill, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one 😛

Paypal even state that you're better off disputing the transaction through a chargeback, but in the case of a failed product I seriously doubt that you will be able to recover the cost of the item because you have in fact received the correct item. Credit Card companies aren't usually in the habit of covering a business' warranty obligations. 

The only protection we have, as Australians is the Australian Consumer Law, which states that Just because a seller/retailer does not specifically say they offer any sort of warranty on their products, it does not absolve them from any consumer guarantees, which apply regardless of any warranties suppliers sell or give, and apply for a reasonable time depending on the nature of the goods or services. This means consumer guarantees may continue to apply after the time period for the warranty has expired. 

But this too is not something that can be relied upon, particularly when buying from Ebay, as they seem to completely ignore this ruling, i.,e. their 30 day MBG policy. This is regardless of the fact that the Trade Practices act has now been updated to include buying from the likes of Ebay. 

Unscrupulous sellers can easily hide under Ebay's skirt and absolve themselves of any responsibility of the products they sell, particularly if they don't have an ABN, which is not a requirement to have when setting up a store on Ebay. 

And of course, this does not apply when buying from overseas sellers anyway. 

It's the old addage, "Buyer Beware" 🙂

By the same token, it can be a more attractive offer to buy from overseas sellers, particularly if you're trying to save money. Just about anyone would buy an item from someone who sells it cheaper given the choice, it's just a natural thing to do, we all want more for less.

For istance a seller in Australia could be offerring exactly the same item as someone from overseas, but the difference in price might be $10, $20, or depending on the item a hell of a lot more than that. If you have the money to support local sellers then obviously that's the best thing to do, but not everyone has that capability. 

And of course, there are quite often some items that are simply not available through a local seller, the only option then is to buy from overseas. There are other places to shop other than Ebay that have better guarantees for buying from overseas sellers. One I've had experience with is AliExpress, their buyer protection policy is far superior to Ebay's, and Paypal's, although, nothing is perfect 😛

[tazzieterror]

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@comptrub wrote:

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...It is after all a company owned by Yanks, and to them, and any corporation really, chasing the all mighty dollar is the only thing that matters.

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Borderline racist comments are not welcome. Check your prejudice at the door.

[digital*ghost]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

in reply to countessalmirena

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@davewil1964 wrote:

But I have seen many people post that they'll buy even if something just doesn't seem right, because they're using eBay's MBG or PayPal's Buyer Protection as a substitute for due diligence, especially if the item price isn't high.

That makes sense. Many people have been brought up to believe that they can do no wrong, that any problems they have are caused by others, and that they should take no responsibility for anything they do that doesn't come up roses.

eBay have set up a framework and set of "rules" to govern how trading is done on their platform, and avtively promote the safety measures they've put in place to avoid buyer disappointment.  It's hardly the fault of an individual's upbringing if they choose to take advantage of a system geared towards making them a repeat user.

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I don't know if I would blame a person's upbringing, but there is a problem with someone who willfully ignores warnings signs and buys anyway "because PayPal",  which is what I believe countess was referring to. I actually blame eBay a lot for this, and a lot of online retail marketing in general, which is very much "don't think, just buy, fix problems later". 

There have been many posters who have come to the boards asking for advice because they were fully aware their purchase had greater risk than the average listings. They saw all of the warning signs, but bought anyway, and then find when they inevitably need to make use of buyer protection, it isn't just a case of raise a claim, get your money back (eg problems encountered can included return postage to other countries being very high and the seller won't provide the costs, getting documents to support a claim the item was fake is not always easy especially in the timeframe given, other cases where they raise an INR dispute because not received, but the seller manages to prove delivery anyway).

[tazzieterror]

The types of issues (and indeed buyers) you're alluding to are different to the one raised by the OP in this thread, though.

I absolutely agree there are dumb buyers who should know better but take risks and suffer the consequences, however the situation here is not one of those. Misrepresenting an item's location is a practice that eBay could easily stamp out, but they choose not to.

It sounds like the OP has been caught out a couple of times and they're not an inexperienced user; likewise I've been buying on here for well over a decade and I've failed to notice an "Australian" item that actually isn't on more than one occasion, and I'd count myself a savvy buyer.

My response was mainly to davewil, who's saying the problem is with the buyers and that eBay kowtow to their behaviour, but I maintan that eBay - through the way they've designed and market the platform, and fail to address particular issues - are encouraging buyers to behave this way, which I think you're agreeing with anyway.

But I go back to my earlier point about new users - without the benefit of experience, how are they meant to exercise due diligence, know to check feedback, specified shipping times etc etc for an item misrepresented as being in Australia? They find an item, it's supposedly in Australia, and make the purchase, not knowing any better. Not an idea introduction to the eBay buying experience when the reality of the situation becomes apparent.

If eBay stamped out the practice, overseas sellers would be forced to adapt, and either be truthful about the overseas location of the item, or start warehousing more stock in Australia.

Prices might rise some, but that's in eBay's interests, and buyer dissatisfaction would be reduced, which is in everyone's interests.

[digital*ghost]

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@tazzieterror wrote:


But I go back to my earlier point about new users - without the benefit of experience, how are they meant to exercise due diligence, know to check feedback, specified shipping times etc etc for an item misrepresented as being in Australia? They find an item, it's supposedly in Australia, and make the purchase, not knowing any better. Not an idea introduction to the eBay buying experience when the reality of the situation becomes apparent.

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I agree for the most part, but I also think it's not unheard of, or impossible, or asking too much to think to research a little bit about website someone is new to, which lately seems to be relegated to the same cursory 'yarp' as a tick to the "I have read the terms and conditions" box.

In saying that, I'm not referring specifically to item location misrepresentation - on that we are pretty much on 100% agreement with, so I recognise I am speaking in broader terms here, but I think countess was as well, which is why I decided to add my 2c I understand even the most diligent of buyers may not have an inkling one of the questions they might need to ask is "how can I tell if an item is really in Australia?". 

But at the same time, along with those who do ask questions but ignore the answers (re: warning signs) there are those who will not ask any questions at all, will not even google information about common things to look out for when shopping on eBay (where discussions related to these practices may appear), because they feel it's ok to purchase indiscriminately due to buyer protections (and those protections are also largely not researched, they just have an idea or assumption of what they are, so this practice ignores the fact that no one has an automatic right to protection, PayPal / eBay can't mitigate all problems, and if they continue to choose poorly and too many of those decisions result in disputes, they may lose access to PayPal, or eBay entirely - it's happened before, and will happen again, because PayPal especially deem those kinds of buyers as a risk. This point may be moot when Adyen take over, but may not be... we'll have to wait and see). 

I do blame eBay for a lot of this kind of assumptive behaviour, because they encourage it, but ultimately it is the buyer who chooses how to approach their online purchases.