END The Dole to Push Aussies Into Work

[icyfroth]

Sometimes in politics you can only shake your head in amazement as to how public policy is made.

For nearly 30 years our governments have been spending billions of dollars supposedly to make young Australians 'job ready' through vocational training.

Now, in the post-Covid economic recovery, we are being told there are 50,000 fruit picking jobs, 30,000 hospitality vacancies and 15,000 trades and construction jobs in NSW that can only be filled by foreign workers.

Pacific Islanders have been brought in for the farm harvest - while the other positions will be filled by going back to big immigration numbers of 200,000 per annum.

Meanwhile, some parts of western Sydney and country NSW have youth unemployment rates of 30 and 40 percent.

How hard is it to ensure Australians get first crack at the jobs?

The immigration program should be designed, first and foremost, for the benefit of people who live here now, not new arrivals.

There are so many job vacancies at the moment, anyone who says they can't find work is not really looking for it.

The only possible barrier for some is a vaccination requirement, but in many NSW workplaces this ended today (December 15) with the abolition of vaccine passports.

Bringing workers from overseas puts pressure on housing prices and adds to urban congestion.

It floods the labour market and holds down wages.

The logical alternative is to end the dole.

Anyone bludging on welfare must be made to take a job vacancy.

Scott Morrison should announce the abolition of the dole as of March 1 2022.  

We can't have permanent youth unemployment in Australia, a generation who think that work is optional and taxpayers will carry them forever.

Ending the dole would be a culture shock to these job snobs, a wake up call about the necessity of work.

It would end the labour shortages quick smart, save the government vast amounts of money and avoid an over-reliance on overseas workers.

We are not talking about high-skill jobs that need years of training.

If young people in particular got off their backsides they would find work tomorrow on farms and in cafes, restaurants and pubs.

The fruit picking jobs should have gone to Indigenous unemployed in country areas, overcoming that chronic problem, instead of importing Pacific Islanders.

The soft, lazy way of dealing with the labour shortages is to turn on the immigration tap.

The realistic way is to end the dole and end Australian unemployment.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/mark-latham-why-we-should-end-the-dole-to-push-aussies-into... 

Politicians would be aware of this, but any PM who would dare suggest to end the dole, would be out on their backside next election.

The rioting unleashed would rival the recent BLM riots in the US, or the rioting against Beijing in Hong Kong!

[springyzone]

I agree with a lot of what you say. I would very much like to see Australian residents getting first crack at jobs. 

I also agree that the soft, lazy way to stimulate the economy has been for politicians to turn on the immigration tap. It's all very well for politicians but for those of us in the oputer suburbs (where most immigrants go), what we're seeing is overcrowding everywhere, especially on the roads, and systems straining to cope.

A couple of years back, one of my grandkids missed out on getting into a local kinder because (according to the kinder docs released to parents) first preference went to new arrivals from overseas and those whose main language was not English because they 'needed' it more. I'm not debating they need it, I'm just saying it is time to slow the immigration tap if our own tax payers can't get their kids into a local kinder too. Their kids 'need' it as well.

But cutting the dole-I see that as problematical.

Here's why.

1. Unless things have changed a lot, those on unemployment benefits already have to jump through a few hoops. They used to have to show they had applied for several jobs over every 2 week period. I know that was the case when my daughter applied a decade ago anyway. She was only on it a few weeks between jobs and said it was a nightmare as far as all the paperwork went.

2. Unemployed people don't always have a lot of money. It isn't necessarily fair to expect them to take a job with excessive travel requirements every day or one where they would need to sell up and move elsewhere or move out of home. 

3. Not every unemployed person is equal. Once you are over 50, your chances of picking up suitable work are much reduced. I'd say age discrimination is rampant. You won't hear people admit to it, but it is there.

4.  We keep hearing that if people lose one job, they can retrain for another or get work in a different field. But most jobs are asking for experience. The other aspect is the level of activity required. For some jobs, you do need to be reasonably young and fit. Even the pension age restrictions I think might be a bit unfair. There is talk of moving retirment age out further and further and that is okay if you are in an office job, but a lot of workers in heavy jobs start to wear out physically-bad backs, shoulders, knees etc and when we read how they should retrain for eg office work, well, try getting office work without any previous experience when you are over 50. Very unlikely to happen.

5. Some people are unemployable-mental & physical problems. 

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I think what you are mainly talking about is generational poverty where a middle class work ethic is not passed on to the kids. Yes, that is a massive problem and not easily fixed.

I would not cut out unemployment benefits. Maybe training should be looked at as I don't see much being done in that area to assist unemployed.

There are some benefits that I think are given too freely to some groups and they should be tightened but unemployment, not so much.

[springyzone]

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

The problem is that many ,many  of those on the dole are unemployable.

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One has to wonder... How "employable" does someone need to be to pick fruit?

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Very middle class view.

In generational poverty, the organisational skills of the person are the main problem (as far as an employer goes)

-the person does not necessarily understand the need to work between certain hours. They may roll in at eg 10.30am  instead of 9am if it suits.

-they may just not turn up if they don't feel like it.

-they may not understand the need to stay on task. So they may be talking to their friend on the phone during work hours.

That may not matter as much with fruit picking, where people are paid by the amount they pick (or so I have read). But if an unemployed person finds they are not getting all that much money from it (because maybe they don't work hard at it or put in the hours), then how motivated do you think they will be to stay in it? Not very.

But more to the point, how motivated will the employer be to keep such a person on the payroll?

[myoclon1cjerk]

Sorry, but when it comes to fruit picking, most people here have NFI.

[repentatleisure1952]

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

The problem is that many ,many  of those on the dole are unemployable.

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One has to wonder... How "employable" does someone need to be to pick fruit?

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They have to get out of bed.

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That's an easy one... the boss man goes into the fruit pickers bunkhouse first thing in the morning, shouts, "you don't work, you don't eat", then clears everyone out and sees that they get on the truck that takes them to the orchard to begin picking.

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Perhaps I was not clear.

I am talking about those getting out of bed to look for work.

[not_for_sale2024]

"Get them out of their bubble and into real life. Most of their problems, drugs, alcohol, gambling addictions, no social skills are created by boredom and dependence on welfare."

And this is very much a problem with the social attitude towards people on the dole. Some older people in particular still view 'dole bludgers' as individuals with "problems, drugs, alcohol, gambling addictions, no social skills". But janeababe enlightened you by highlighting some of the circumstances why people are struggling with unemployment in 2021, but you chose to ignore. This is not the 60s or 70s. I agree, some people need to catch up with the reality of the present, and not judge others based upon stereotypes locked in their head and which belong in the past.

[bidicus*maximus]

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

The problem is that many ,many  of those on the dole are unemployable.

---

One has to wonder... How "employable" does someone need to be to pick fruit?

---

They have to get out of bed.

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That's an easy one... the boss man goes into the fruit pickers bunkhouse first thing in the morning, shouts, "you don't work, you don't eat", then clears everyone out and sees that they get on the truck that takes them to the orchard to begin picking.

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Perhaps I was not clear.

I am talking about those getting out of bed to look for work.

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I guess that I was thinking along the lines of not making working or not a choice... you want your 'dole' for the rest of the year, you pick fruit for a month or two... 

[domino-710]

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

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@bidicus*maximus wrote:

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@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

---

@bidicus*maximus wrote:

---

@repentatleisure1952 wrote:

The problem is that many ,many  of those on the dole are unemployable.

---

One has to wonder... How "employable" does someone need to be to pick fruit?

---

They have to get out of bed.

---

That's an easy one... the boss man goes into the fruit pickers bunkhouse first thing in the morning, shouts, "you don't work, you don't eat", then clears everyone out and sees that they get on the truck that takes them to the orchard to begin picking.

---

Perhaps I was not clear.

I am talking about those getting out of bed to look for work.

---

I guess that I was thinking along the lines of not making working or not a choice... you want your 'dole' for the rest of the year, you pick fruit for a month or two... 

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LOL - lead balloon - what makes you think that would be viable here - you lot (the US) won't even wear a mask.

[janeababe]

@icy ….

like I said, you really have no idea! 

I worked as a Trainer & Assessor  for 5 yrs with one of NSW largest Job Service Networks.  That ended when covid shut the doors on face to face training, so I do have a LOT of experience with working with the unemployed. 
Your knowledge is limited and your views are naive. 

[the_great_she_elephant]

Before we abolish the 'dole' it might be worth considering a few pertinent facts. 

1) In WA (for example) the unemployment rate is 3.9%

2) That is 3.9% of the actual labour force (those working or actively seeking work) not 3.9% of the entire population - which in WA is around 2.6 million.

3) This 2.6 million includes children, students, retirees, carers, stay-at-home parents  and those unable to work. 

4) The number of these has to be deducted from the total population to arrive at the actual size of the workforce - of which 3.9% are unemployed 

5) It is also reasonable to assume that the majority of that 3.9% are in fact willing to work.

6) All of which begs the question: how many people in WA really are 'dole bludgers'; what percentage of the population do they represent; and is this a large enough number to justify punishing all the unemployed? 

[bidicus*maximus]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Before we abolish the 'dole' it might be worth considering a few pertinent facts. 

1) In WA (for example) the unemployment rate is 3.9%

2) That is 3.9% of the actual labour force (those working or actively seeking work) not 3.9% of the entire population - which in WA is around 2.6 million.

3) This 2.6 million includes children, students, retirees, carers, stay-at-home parents  and those unable to work. 

4) The number of these has to be deducted from the total population to arrive at the actual size of the workforce - of which 3.9% are unemployed 

5) It is also reasonable to assume that the majority of that 3.9% are in fact willing to work.

6) All of which begs the question: how many people in WA really are 'dole bludgers'; what percentage of the population do they represent; and is this a large enough number to justify punishing all the unemployed? 

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All very valid points that I'm sure would apply the world over.  Personally, I'm not in favor of "punishing" anyone, but I am in favor of the elimination of fraud and waste and of not rewarding those too lazy to do an honest days work... which is why I'm also in favor of requiring those "on the dole", if  judged able, to do some sort of what we call here in the US, "community service", which would be a way for those who are receiving assistance to "pay back" society for taking care of them by performing a useful service that would benefit all.  Some examples of tasks that are assigned here in the US as community service would be:  working in a charity shop, picking up litter on the streets,  working in a kitchen or food pantry that provides meals for the homeless.  We don't require this sort of "payback" here and your voters and politicians will decide what you do there, but, in my view, this sort of system would be a perfect compromise.