Rule Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory

[icyfroth]

BBC Proms: Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory will feature on Last Night

Orchestral versions of Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory will be performed at the Last Night Of The Proms, the BBC has confirmed.

It had been reported the songs could be dropped over concerns of associations with colonialism and slavery.

The pieces are usually sung but will be performed without lyrics this year, although they are expected to be back in full when the pandemic is over.

The concert is due to take place on 12 September but without an audience.

At the weekend, the Sunday Times had reported both Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory could be dropped from the programme.

The paper said conductor Dalia Stasevska believed it was time "to bring change" to the Royal Albert Hall, in the year that the anti-racism movement gathered pace following the death of George Floyd.

Why is Rule, Britannia! so controversial?

Rule, Britannia! was set to music by Thomas Arne in 1740, and its lyrics were based on a poem by James Thomson.

It contains verses such as:

"The nations, not so blest as thee / Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall.

"While thou shalt flourish great and free / The dread and envy of them all.

"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves / Britons never will be slaves."

Land Of Hope And Glory makes similar reference to the "might" of the former British Empire, which some people today find problematic.

Chi-chi Nwanoku runs the Chineke! Foundation, which aims to provide opportunities for black, Asian and ethnically diverse classical musicians in the UK and Europe, said: "We find it offensive.

"Of course I know other people are going to want to cling to it, but I know why they want to cling to it.

"These songs are jingoistic echoes of empire and, depending on what side of the fence you're sitting on, you either feel joyous, emboldened and patriotic and immediately identify with all the sentiments of it."

"For any conscious black person who is aware of their history, the empire and colonialism, for example, they will struggle to enjoy the patriotic jingoism of these songs."

She particularly draws attention to the themes of superiority, domination and ownership of black people.

"And the thing is, people continue to benefit from the proceeds of that relationship," she says. "How are we going to break down the institutional system, if we hang on to these [songs]?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53895000

Easy. By the old rule of divide and conquer.

Activate, demonstrate, violate. Like what's happening currently in the US.

And why the need to break down the institutional system. Isn't that after all what you migrated to?

[lurker172602]

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@lionrose.7 wrote:

In New Zealand never had to sing British National anthem ever.

I can remember singing God Defend New Zealand a few times

Never wanted to stand for god save the Queen. I never have considered her NZ Queen.

Asked my Mother why has she got all those Crowns and Diamonds when there are poor people she should sell them.

My sister says I was strange child LOL

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We most certainly did. I think you're a bit older than me and I can certainly remember singing God Save the Queen at school, before the film at the pictures and at Anzac Day ceremonies.  I could also probably still belt out a version on the recorder 😂 

"God Save the Queen" was New Zealand's sole national anthem until the 1970s …… 

In 1976 Garth Henry Latta from Dunedin presented a petition to Parliament asking "God Defend New Zealand" to be made the national anthem. With the permission of Queen Elizabeth II, it was gazetted as the country's second national anthem on 21 November 1977, on equal standing with "God Save the Queen".……

"God Defend New Zealand" was written as a poem in the 1870s by Irish-born, Victorian-raised immigrant Thomas Bracken of Dunedin.

A competition to compose music for the poem was held in 1876……

The song became increasingly popular during the early 20th century, and in 1940 the New Zealand government bought the copyright and made it New Zealand's 'national hymn' in time for that year's centennial celebrations. It was used at the British Empire Games from 1950 onward, and first used at the Olympics during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich.  Following the performance at the Munich games, a campaign began to have the song adopted as the national anthem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Defend_New_Zealand

[lurker172602]

That's interesting. I don't think I heard the Maori words until after I left NZ.

Setting aside what I said up there ^^^ about national anthems, I quite like the idea of multilingual ones.  God Defend New Zealand and  the South African ones for example. 

[ambercat16]

I went to a Catholic primary school in a small town in the Bay of Plenty - the school population was about 60% Maori, 40% Pakeha.  One of the nuns in particular was very keen on us learning about maori culture and for a while we even had maori language lessons. It's part of the curriculum now I understand but wasn't back then.

[lurker172602]

I had one year of Maori language in Form 1 at Intermediate. I wish we had more.
There was Maori Club at school, but Pakeha kids weren’t encouraged to join. Different now thankfully.

My family use quite a bit of language now that it is more mainstream, used on TV news etc.

[the_great_she_elephant]

I always thought this was the New Zealand National Anthem. ( ...........runs away fast) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVcUF5XduEk

[lurker172602]

Nah it’s this one really
https://youtu.be/5tAWwqKNI7g

I miss John Clarke 😢

[lionrose.7]

I can remember singing 

God save our Grey Tom Cat feed him on bread and fat God save our cat