Rule Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory

[icyfroth]

BBC Proms: Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory will feature on Last Night

Orchestral versions of Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory will be performed at the Last Night Of The Proms, the BBC has confirmed.

It had been reported the songs could be dropped over concerns of associations with colonialism and slavery.

The pieces are usually sung but will be performed without lyrics this year, although they are expected to be back in full when the pandemic is over.

The concert is due to take place on 12 September but without an audience.

At the weekend, the Sunday Times had reported both Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory could be dropped from the programme.

The paper said conductor Dalia Stasevska believed it was time "to bring change" to the Royal Albert Hall, in the year that the anti-racism movement gathered pace following the death of George Floyd.

Why is Rule, Britannia! so controversial?

Rule, Britannia! was set to music by Thomas Arne in 1740, and its lyrics were based on a poem by James Thomson.

It contains verses such as:

"The nations, not so blest as thee / Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall.

"While thou shalt flourish great and free / The dread and envy of them all.

"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves / Britons never will be slaves."

Land Of Hope And Glory makes similar reference to the "might" of the former British Empire, which some people today find problematic.

Chi-chi Nwanoku runs the Chineke! Foundation, which aims to provide opportunities for black, Asian and ethnically diverse classical musicians in the UK and Europe, said: "We find it offensive.

"Of course I know other people are going to want to cling to it, but I know why they want to cling to it.

"These songs are jingoistic echoes of empire and, depending on what side of the fence you're sitting on, you either feel joyous, emboldened and patriotic and immediately identify with all the sentiments of it."

"For any conscious black person who is aware of their history, the empire and colonialism, for example, they will struggle to enjoy the patriotic jingoism of these songs."

She particularly draws attention to the themes of superiority, domination and ownership of black people.

"And the thing is, people continue to benefit from the proceeds of that relationship," she says. "How are we going to break down the institutional system, if we hang on to these [songs]?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53895000

Easy. By the old rule of divide and conquer.

Activate, demonstrate, violate. Like what's happening currently in the US.

And why the need to break down the institutional system. Isn't that after all what you migrated to?

[the_great_she_elephant]

Have you ever wondered why we don't sing more than the first verse of God Save The Queen? 

[davewil1964]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Have you ever wondered why we don't sing more than the first verse of God Save The Queen? 

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I don't sing it at all, given I'm not a Pom.

[the_great_she_elephant]

This verse should stir the heart of every patriotic Brit.

O Lord our God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!

Or what about this one:

Oh! grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy gracious aid
Victory bring;
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush,
And the French King!

Or this:

From France and Pretender
Great Britain defend her,
Foes let them fall;
From foreign slavery,
Priests and their knavery,
And Popish Reverie,
God save us all.

There is apparenty no definitive 'official' version - apart from the first verse - and it should be noted that neither of the above  verses was included when the song was adopted as the National anthem at the beginning of the 19th century.

[icyfroth]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Have you ever wondered why we don't sing more than the first verse of God Save The Queen? 

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I don't sing it at all, given I'm not a Pom.

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I did, being a migrant child and trying to fit in with everyone else.

First verse only.

Then we had to recite the "Lords Prayer"

Then we could sit down to the day's lessons.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Have you ever wondered why we don't sing more than the first verse of God Save The Queen? 

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I don't sing it at all, given I'm not a Pom.

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Until 1984 it was the National Anthem of Australia as well as England.

[lurker172602]

Personally, I’ve always found lyrics to national anthems, and anthems in general, rather ridiculous. What’s the point of them?
To me they seem to be the height of jingoism

[icyfroth]

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@lurker172602 wrote:
Personally, I’ve always found lyrics to national anthems, and anthems in general, rather ridiculous. What’s the point of them?
To me they seem to be the height of jingoism

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@lurker172602 wrote:
Personally, I’ve always found lyrics to national anthems, and anthems in general, rather ridiculous. What’s the point of them?
To me they seem to be the height of jingoism

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Nah. There's nothing wrong with national loyalty, and singing anthems to it.

It's a good thing, though may be fading in the years to come when we're all "globalised".

[lionrose.7]

In New Zealand never had to sing British National anthem ever.

I can remember singing God Defend New Zealand a few times

Never wanted to stand for god save the Queen. I never have considered her NZ Queen.

Asked my Mother why has she got all those Crowns and Diamonds when there are poor people she should sell them.

My sister says I was strange child LOL

[ambercat16]

I can remember singing God Save the Queen at primary school.  At the time it was the national anthem and was played in the cinema at the end of movies too (and you were supposed to stand.  The noise made by all the seats flicking back as everyone stood was always a source of amusement😄.

God Defend New Zealand was generally (at our school anyway) sung in Maori and it was a patriotic song but not the national anthem at the time.  It wasn't until towards the end of my schooling that it started to be sung in english and at school assemblies and even later when it was adopted as the alternate national anthem.  

I still love to hear it in maori......although the words in english are vastly preferable to the words of many other countries anthems😉