Violence against women OK.

[village_person]

Muslim leader Keysar Trad tells Andrew Bolt violence against women is 'last resort'

A controversial Muslim community leader has said violence towards women should be a "last resort".

President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Keysar Trad appeared on Sky News last night when host Andrew Bolt brought up domestic violence.

The presenter quoted from the Koran, saying "It is permissible for him (husbands) to beat her (the wife) light with his hands".

"Violence is a last resort," Trad responded.

"Before you even consider using your hand before you consider any act of violence have you checked box number one, which is counselling. Have you checked box number two?

[...]

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/02/23/06/33/muslim-leader-keysar-trad-tells-andrew-bolt-violen...

Given the priapic identity of the alleged religion in question is it any wonder we see such views trotted out from time to time.

I'll bet we'll see an avalanche of criticism directed at Mr Trad after what he had to say. At the same time we'll see a flight of pigs soaring high.

Julia Gillard phone your office.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Violence against women is NEVER OK regardless of who is perpetrating it, why they are perpetrating it or who is encouraging them to perpetrate it. Where this thread has gone off the rails is the assumption that because one rabid right wing Muslim preacher says it's OK then every single Muslim in Australia must also believe it is OK.

[johcaschro]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Violence against women is NEVER OK regardless of who is perpetrating it, why they are perpetrating it or who is encouraging them to perpetrate it. Where this thread has gone off the rails is the assumption that because one rabid right wing Muslim preacher says it's OK then every single Muslim in Australia must also believe it is OK.

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Unless one happens to find justification by virtue of one's religious persmission to do so?

Surah 4:34

"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

https://quran.com/4/34

(my bold)

There is just so much in this (complete verse) which jars with our understanding about the equality of women and about the demand that women are given equal consideration and respect under law, don't you aggree, ele?

The above verse is not the raving of one right wing rabid Muslim preacher; it is the very word of Allah himself and it must not be held in contempt. (cough, cough, splutter, splutter)

[the_great_she_elephant]

Once again, you are assuming that every Muslim in Australia believes implicitly and follows to the letter every word written in the Koran.

I suspect there is much in most holy books that discriminates against women, I know for a fact there is much in the   bible (even the New Testament) that does so, but just as I also  know for a fact that most Christians do not feel it obligatory for wives to be subject to their husbands or women to be barred from preaching, so I suspect most Muslims in Australia do not feel lthemselves obliged  to beat recalcitrant wives.

[johcaschro]

And once again, are you claiming that Muslims don't take their Koran and its teachings seriously?

I'll refrain from pointing out your persistence with whataboutery as if that was ever a valid argument.

You "suspect" that "most Muslims in Australia do not feel lthemselves obliged  to beat recalcitrant wives."

But I don't "suspect", I know that the Koran gives Muslim husbands the explicit permisssion to do so and even recommends wife-beating as a last resort in the face of the wives' refusal to obey.

How can we ever get around this? The religion gives permission and encouragement to do some awful things and here are some people trying to defend the religion by claiming that adherents to it do not really believe in its teachings?

Surely you can see and appreciate that this is a ludicrous defence?

[peteepie]

The problem is that the ones most likely to be beaten in Australia are the poor Muslims because of vilification by bigots like johcashlo and his mates.  

What on earth do they think they are achieving with their clever little quotes from the Koran and their claims of expertise of a religion which is foreign to them?  Do they think nobody else realises these ancient texts have a soft underbelly ripe for the picking by someone with nasty intent?  Do they think we are all so ignorant that we need to be educated by their wisdom?

There are half a million Muslims in Australia.

Thankfully there is only one johcashlo.

[johcaschro]

What can I say? Can I say that I feel offended and humiliated and harassed by your accusation that I am a bigot?

There is no soft underbelly to Islam; there are religious teachings which are anathema to any enlightened and civilised 21st century person. And it's right that we should call them out as such and debate their relevance and applicability to our modern society.

Please don't take it so personally when I call out oppressive and misogynistic ideas and name them for what they are.

It may be that these ancient texts have modern day relevance when they are being taught to today's youth as if they were the very word of god and the unalterable Truth.

Reflect on this for a while. How does this affect your society; those people nearest and dearest to you, if a popular body of thought arises which tolerates and propagates the idea that women are less than the equals of men, in law and tradition and in culture?

[mr.tip]

Liberal called you a bigot last night i expected the world to have changed today because of that..........

but no.........

they are still beating the women

women still can't drive in some of the countries

girls are still having their privates mutilated

etc, etc, etc................

maybe the Liberal's will call us islamaphobes today

or even racists

and then tomorrow the world will definately change......... and there will be unicorns and rainbows and the clouds will open and rain down gummy bears and the world will be as one............... imagine that.

[the_great_she_elephant]

they are still beating the women

I think what you mean is: women are still being beaten - and so they are, right here in Australia, by men of all colours, creeds and ehnicities. And  if you were to ask those men why they did it, they would say things like:  she taunted me, she kept nagging me, she went out and wouldn't tell me where she had been, she spent money on new clothes without asking permission. And I bet nearly every one of those men would  secretly believe that they had been hard done by and the beating was justifed. 

In Australia, violence against women is a man problem, not a Muslim problem.

[mr.tip]

Ho-hum (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) boring

the liberal changed the topic again.

by refusing to acknowledge something doesn't make it stop.

little girls will still be mutillated

the teaching that it's alright to beat your wife will still be taught

and in some places women will still not be able to drive

etc, etc, etc

[go-tazz]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

In Australia, violence against women is a man problem, not a Muslim problem.

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In the case of the Muslim women it is a Muslim problem as their holy books tells their men that they are allowed

to do it.

Australian men know it's against the law to hit a woman but the Muslim men believe that their religion is

above the law so they believe that the abuse of women is their right to do so,(Muslim women would not report

the abuse as they could be punished further,so there isn't a record of abuse).

The Muslim religion is supposed to be a peacefull religion but IMHO it can't be seen as such unless the hatred

and violence is removed from that holy book and it's teachings.