Are Vero Bans Constitutionally legal in Australia or could they lead to a class Action

[pickenshovel1234]

So the reason Im writing this is I got a Vero warning and a takedown of listing on a hat I still swear is legitimate .

I was told next time I will Have a 3 day suspension from the site . It seems a very Drastic action considering that a counterfeiters whole business model is to fool people, including the experts , so what chance do I Have of determining the absolute Authenticity of an Item that I brought third hand . So anyway I was on the **bleep** ( Beers ) with my high class Barrister mate telling him my Storie and he was like " under Australian Law if you didn't know you were Breaking the law there's a probability you couldn't be prosecuted for it " So I was like but Ebay can Still ban Me ,' I saw the dollar signs flash across his eyes and he said that's not legal if you didn't know you were committing a crime , something called mens rea and he would love to test it .

Then he sent me an Email stating the next few segments :

The general rule of the English law is that no crime can be committed unless there is mens rea.

In Australia, the common law presumption of fault-based liability is also reflected in statute. Section 5.6 creates a rebuttable presumption that, to establish guilt, fault must be proven for each physical element of a offence.

In Australia offences are generally characterised 

• mens rea —they  must prove a physical element (knowledge that a crime has been committed )  (actus reus) and a mental element (mens rea);

• So are Vero bans a legal punishment for people who have no knowledge that have committed an infraction ........... just interested to hear opinions

[imastawka · Accepted solution]

Only intellectual property rights owners can report eBay listings that infringe on their copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property rights.

The owner of those rights informed ebay of your infraction.

Ebay did not make the decision.

But they have made the decision that if you re-list it you will breach their policies and so have the right to ban you for however long.

Bottom line is - ebay's platform, ebay's rules.

Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) policy | eBay

Don't like it, try selling it elsewhere.

There's no provenance in a third-hand item.

Ignorance holds no water in a court of law AFAIK

[domino-710 · Accepted solution]

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@pickenshovel1234 wrote:

So the reason Im writing this is I got a Vero warning and a takedown of listing on a hat I still swear is legitimate .

I was told next time I will Have a 3 day suspension from the site . It seems a very Drastic action considering that a counterfeiters whole business model is to fool people, including the experts , so what chance do I Have of determining the absolute Authenticity of an Item that I brought third hand . So anyway I was on the **bleep** ( Beers ) with my high class Barrister mate telling him my Storie and he was like " under Australian Law if you didn't know you were Breaking the law there's a probability you couldn't be prosecuted for it " So I was like but Ebay can Still ban Me ,' I saw the dollar signs flash across his eyes and he said that's not legal if you didn't know you were committing a crime , something called mens rea and he would love to test it .

Then he sent me an Email stating the next few segments :

The general rule of the English law is that no crime can be committed unless there is mens rea.

In Australia, the common law presumption of fault-based liability is also reflected in statute. Section 5.6 creates a rebuttable presumption that, to establish guilt, fault must be proven for each physical element of a offence.

In Australia offences are generally characterised 

• mens rea —they  must prove a physical element (knowledge that a crime has been committed )  (actus reus) and a mental element (mens rea);

• So are Vero bans a legal punishment for people who have no knowledge that have committed an infraction ........... just interested to hear opinions

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Your ' Barrister ' friend - covered his butt. lol

[sugar249 · Accepted solution]

Of course your lawyer wants to prosecute,  he can see the dollar signs at your expense.  He doesnt care if he wins or looses,  just means his kids will go to private school and he gets the latest BMW.  All because you believe him.

[gutterpunkz05]

Not sure that mens rea applies to breaches of property rights,  in any case the standard procedure for an initial breach, is normally a warning (cease and desist) .  As you have been warned, you can no longer proffer ignorance as any form of defence.

Note, the item does not have to be counterfeit, to be in breach of property rights.

[davewil1964]

" under Australian Law if you didn't know you were Breaking the law there's a probability you couldn't be prosecuted for it "

Under Australian law, ignorance is no excuse.

Your barrister either should be disbarred or you should treat his opinion according to what you paid for it.

[eol-products]

I think you will find the issue is due to offering worldwide postage on that item that has infringed on another countries Vero bans. In Australia we are allowed to resell what ever we like, but in the US many companies do not allow their brands to be resold. Maybe worth looking into which brands to avoid offering international shipping on.

[sugar249]

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@eol-products wrote:

I think you will find the issue is due to offering worldwide postage on that item that has infringed on another countries Vero bans. In Australia we are allowed to resell what ever we like, but in the US many companies do not allow their brands to be resold. Maybe worth looking into which brands to avoid offering international shipping on.

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Not sure if you are right about the australian comment.

[gutterpunkz05]

Sales in Australia, must also comply with property rights, does not matter if the owner of such rights is local or overseas, of if the rights fall to a licenced distributor.

[eol-products]

I am not talking about selling counterfeit items as genuine but selling genuine items as genuine. In the US you cannot sell many brands due to the companies not allowing reselling of their products. Hence allowing international postage on these items may get a Vero warning. In Australia I can purchase any item from a business and resell it myself.