Buyer returns item after 4 months and Paypal gives refund.

[old_55_au]

After 10 years on EBay and over 10000 sales and many millions of dollars in sales I knew it was too good to be true. We had our first PayPal refund for goods returned and surprise surprise the item is totally unsaleable. It has either been used not for the purpose it was intended (passenger car or truck) or it’s been immersed in salt water and used in a marine environment. The item an alternator and bracket both carry the tell-tale effects of salt water and even after we replaced the initial claim of a faulty item (alternator) we then had the buyer contact us saying that it too was faulty. We sell over 3000 of these a year (imported from the USA - not a Chinese knockoff) and in the past 13 years have had only one other claim for a faulty unit. We supplied photos of the returned item along with photos of the new item but because there is no scenario into which it fits PayPal have claimed the money, paid the buyer and for all intents and purposes the matter is closed. I for one do not believe that this is a isolated case, but one where the buyer has used and abused the item and because it has been returned PayPal have resolved the claim in the buyers favour. I should not be surprised by the action after 38 years in business and seeing a watering down of seller’s rights over this time.

[dylan11235813]

I mean this in the nicest possible way but surely after trading for so long you have some sort of figure of how much you loose from such things and figure that into the pricing? I hate it, and papal and ebay don;t seem to care but at the end of the day I think all businesses suffer losses like this. There will always be someone who has less than ideal ethics, not to say I have never done anything wrong though.

[phorum_junkie*]

 I agree, I subscribe a few cents from each sale to my slush fund for the rare occasion when I refund without return, always my fault by the way....so far and after all the years I have been selling on ebay if I continued to save that money once it reached enough to refund my most expensive twice over I would be worth a fortune.

Also if Paypal find in the buyer's favour for an item not as described dispute you can call them on the phone and fight your corner. Push the right buttons and you will end up with Paypal giving you a discretional refund without admitting they were in the wrong.

[Anonymous]

Basically the buyer has committed fraud and PayPal has been complicit in

facilitating the fraud. It stinks to high heaven.

So what if it's something to be expected after years of trading.

You wouldn't be 'expecting' it if PayPal didn't have such a pathetic return

system.

Go to your resolution centre and APPEAL.

If there is no appeal button then just keep sending them letters until

they let fly with.....

" In this case, considering you long standing account with us
we have decided to make an ex-gratia payment to you of $...."

or words to this effect.

Don't ease up on PayPal.

I have been there and done that when someone returned an item

years ago after ruining it first.

Don't give up and above all be polite.

[dylan11235813]

There is no doubt that they are facilitating the fraud, in the end there is no point in actually fighting it though, ebay and paypal don;t do what is right! they do what they choose, for all I know they will happily break the law if the risk is right....... Not that I agree with everything PJ says but that was a good idea when she posted it a couple of years ago.The little I have been putting aside has amounted over time (I am talking 10 or 20 cents per item) and more than covers the losses, by quite a bit in fact. The one remaining constant is there will always be someone trying to get something for free.

[dylan11235813]

In the end it is just so much stress trying to deal with it when the simple solution is just to price it into the cost. I don't particularly like it but I think that is the best solution. The scammer wins I guess (they will get unstuck) but I don't have all the angst.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what kind of money is involved OP.

PayPal does actually have a human face despite

it's pragmatic follow the rules routine.

Keep at them OP.

Then rub the buyers face in it.

[dylan11235813]

Yep. Its called the 13th floor of a building in sydney that is registered to a lawyer. I made most of that up but it is still the same thing. I guess registering a PO Box wasn't enough.

[cq_tech]

Paypal's clearly erroneous decision can't be allowed to stand and you have a very good chance of getting them to either reverse their decision, or at least have them make a discretionary payment in your favour. You need to contact them by phone on 1800 073 263 and ask to speak with a supervisor. Once he's been familiarised with your case, simply tell him that your buyer has clearly committed fraud and PayPal has been complicit in facilitating that fraud, and unless their decision is overturned and your money refunded within 5 days, you will be lodging an official appeal with the Financial Ombudsmans Service.

There's a very good chance that Paypal will back down at this point and make what they call a "discretionary refund" (which is their way of saying that they're going to be magnanimous and refund your money because you've been such a good client over such a long period), when in fact the real reason is that at the very least, the FOS will be charging them around $1500 to investigate your complaint, and a hell of a lot more in fines if they're of the opinion that Paypal was in error in finding for the buyer. However,  they refuse to overturn their decision, then lodge your dispute with the FOS at https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute and even if you don't ultimately win, at least you can be smug in the knowledge that defending your complaint has cost Paypal at least $1500.

[Anonymous]

old_55_au

It will be too easy to get flustered and blow your stack over the phone.

Step 1 see if there is an APPEAL provision for the case that has been closed.