I want to report schilling by an Australian seller. Which fed. authority do I report it to.

[lokes2004]

I have today reported to ebay 2 instances of schilling by an Australian seller but from the history of this seller on ebay it is clear this has been going on for some time and likely involves thousands of dollars. What action will ebay take to remedy this and assuming that it is a fraudulent activity under state or federal law which Australian authority should I report it to?

Knowing that this has happened for so long makes me question ebay's oversight of such activity. This particular seller schill bids to an Auto maximum bid and if outbid sniffs out the new highest maximum bid and bids up to it to max the price.

If the items ends up going to the scill bid it is again put on auction and the process begins again.

[chameleon54]

How do you know it is shilling ???

Assuming it is, each listing has a report button where you can report suspected shill bidding. You could also try phoning ebay customer service as this is more likely to be processed by an actual human. Shill bidding is against ebay policy and there are some things CS officers can check to verify shill bidding. Depending on how elaborate the shill bidding scheme is, this is not always succesfull.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that shill bidding is illegal in real estate auctions in Australia, but I dont believe this extends to general goods auctions. Even if it did, ebay often claims it is not a registered Australian company and so is not bound by Australian consumer law. Once a sale has taken place the SELLER  would be bound by Australian consumer law, but shill bidding preceeds the actual sale and is conducted on an international internet auction system.    Good luck with getting any action from Australian authorities.

[kopenhagen5]

Shilling on auctions is illegal in most states in Australia.

Vendor bids are permitted but before a reserve is met.

eBay don't have reserves so vendor bids are out.

Keep reporting, eBay can see from IP addresses and area codes of phone numbers plus a few other means if shilling is occuring.

[thecatspjs]

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that shill bidding is illegal in real estate auctions in Australia, but I dont believe this extends to general goods auctions. Even if it did, ebay often claims it is not a registered Australian company and so is not bound by Australian consumer law.

---

This is the most irresponsible post.

Any company or business that operates in Australia must operate within Australian Laws - including eBay - and including consumer laws.   Regardless of where their head office or bank accounts are held.

Sheesh.

Gobsmacked.

[lokes2004]

It's easy to spot when you know what to look for and in this particulat case it has been happening for months,as far back as ebay records of items listed by the seller. The scam buyer puts in a max. bid ( usually at the market price) at the very start so that every subsequent bid fails to achieve the higher bid until a subsequent bidder surpasses that of the scam bidder. Then by using a discover and stop strategy the scam bidder finds the max. bid by gradually working up to it. When the highest bid is matched the scam bidder stops so that the higher bid goes to the other bidder. If they accidentally surpass the higher bid they loose the sale but go on repeat the auction later. When the scam buyer is later seen to be the original seller of the same items and it's repeated 20 or 30 times over a couple of months it sort of stand out.

[thereallygoodbookshop]

Shill bidding can be a fraud offence (false representation) although proving it can be problematic.

There has been successful prosecutions relating to ebay shill bidding.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/ebay-seller-faces-fines-after-bidding-on-own-items-...

I know this example is from the UK but it is the same principle in Australia.  A victim of shill bidding should first report it to ebay and then online to acorn if ebay can't sort it out for you.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Hope that helps you out.

[davewil1964]

---

@thecatspjs wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that shill bidding is illegal in real estate auctions in Australia, but I dont believe this extends to general goods auctions. Even if it did, ebay often claims it is not a registered Australian company and so is not bound by Australian consumer law.

---

This is the most irresponsible post.

Any company or business that operates in Australia must operate within Australian Laws - including eBay - and including consumer laws.   Regardless of where their head office or bank accounts are held.

Sheesh.

Gobsmacked.

---

Sheesh indeed. Your erroneous information is irresponsible.

eBay pay no tax in Australia, claim all Australian sales are in another country...

If they were an Australian registered company just for instance they would collect and pay GST. HA ha ha.

As far as complying with Australian law, please explain how their MBG complies with Australian law. Given that Australian law deems goods delivered when given to a carrier, when MBG requires proof of delivery.

Just one instance. I'm sure others can cite myriad other examples of eBay's noncomplicance with Australian law.

[chameleon54]

---

@thecatspjs wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that shill bidding is illegal in real estate auctions in Australia, but I dont believe this extends to general goods auctions. Even if it did, ebay often claims it is not a registered Australian company and so is not bound by Australian consumer law.

---

This is the most irresponsible post.

Any company or business that operates in Australia must operate within Australian Laws - including eBay - and including consumer laws.   Regardless of where their head office or bank accounts are held.

Sheesh.

Gobsmacked.

---

This is true cats. Unfortunately you appear not to have thought this through properly. The question I was trying to clarify is where are bids placed on a global auction site like ebay actually happening. ????  Is the bid on a global internet site considered under law to be conducted in Australia, if the company is not operating from Australia. ??? 

As we know ebay do not pay GST to the Australian Government, so it follows that The Australian Government and its agencies dont regard the bidding process or other similar components of the transaction, conducted on the ebay site as occuring in Australia. The actual sale once enacted between an Australian buyer and an Australian seller is considered as occuring in Australia under our laws and subject to Australian tax and consumer law, but it appears the Australian Government does not regard the bits in between ( the conduct of the auction for which ebay recieves commisions ) as occuring in Australia and subject to Australian law including taxation obligations.

 I realise this is a complex and technical issue that some may struggle to understand, but it goes to the crux of the OP,s question. If the Australian Government does not tax the commisssions ebay recieves for the auction component of the sale, when conducted between Australian citizens, then under Ausstralian law, the auction component of the process did not occur in Australia and is not subject to our laws.

I stand by my comments that it seems the Australian Government and its agencies dont regard the ebay auction as taking place in Australia, and it does not appear to be subject to Australian law including taxation law.

Cats, I would welcome your more carefully considered thoughts on this. 

[chameleon54]

Thanks Dave, beat me to the computer keyboard. Unfortunately it seems cats may not have thought the issue through properly before posting that response.

[*tippy*toes*]

Do you have an item number of one of the suspect listings? It can be an item that has already ended. Please don't put the sellers name/s. The experienced members of the forum may be able to tell you if it's suspicious or not. Sometimes it looks like shill bidding is taking place, even when it's not.

Some buyers make countless bids instead of just putting in a high bid. If an item starts at $1 and there is already a bid, with that bidder putting in a high bid of $100, the new bidder might bid $1.50. They will immediately be outbid, with the price now showing as $2. They bid $2.50 and are outbid immediately. Instead of then placing a bid for say $50, they go up in increments of $1.

The second bidder may also have put in an initial bid for $50, which they were outbid on. If you look in the bidding history of the item and click on the link to show automatic bids, it will show the bidders going up in 50c increments, making it look like there are lots of bid.

Shill sellers don't want to win the auction. They only want to bump the price up. A lot of the time they will put on a really high bid of say $500 to see what the other bidders highest bid is. They then cancel that bid using the excuse they bid the wrong amount and rebid just under the other bidders high bed. You can see bid retractions under the bidding history.

Another way to check is to click on the anonymous bidder ID in the selling history and see what their % of sales they have with that seller. That's not a reliable method though because some buyers will only be bidding with one seller over the 2 month period it shows the stats for, me included. You can also see how many bid retractions they've made. If there is a lot, that can be a bit suspicious.

As for relisting, often sellers have more than one item so will relist a new one using the same listing. Sometimes even if it's a new item they will still list using the relist option and change the details in the listing. That will show up as the item being relisted, even though it's a completely different item.