Money Back Guarantee Policy

[gordo1955]

I am a casual eBay seller basically just selling my unwanted items (mainly collectables).  I have ended all my items so that I can assess the impact of the new money back guarantee policy. If I only sell items for 'Pickup Only' (either by cash or paypal), does the new policy still apply even though I make sure the buyer is fully satisfied with the item on pickup?

Regards

[tall_bearded01]

Further to what cq-tech wrote.  The component of the contract you are refereeing to is called consideration, and consideration need not take the form of money.  Instead in can take the form of a benefit such as the exchange of goods or services.

EBay says to the buyer, if you choose to buy your item on this site we will guarantee that if the item is not as described or you don’t receive it, then we, eBay (not the seller) will reimburse you what you paid including the postage. So from the buyer’s perspective the consideration is what was guaranteed – a refund paid by eBay.

So where is consideration form eBay’s perspective? The final value fee.  That is, whereas listing fees are payable irrespective of whether the item sells the final value fee is only payable if the item actually sells.  Therefore final value fees are directly tied to "if you choose to buy your item on this site we will guarantee"

[thecatspjs]

[clarry100]

I was just reading about a case on the Facebook page "eBay sellers Australia " where an MBG case was reversed after the seller launched a complaint against PayPal with the FOS. So it appears eBay are not immune to MBG cases being overturned via the FOS. as may have been their plan. Important to note tho that the complaint was against PayPal for providing the refund not against eBay.

[tall_bearded01]

Which is exactly why what I’ve been saying. 

That is though eBay is not a financial institution, PayPal is.  Therefore, though you can’t lodge a complaint with the FOS against eBay decision, if you can find some way of tying PayPal to the decision, then it becomes a joint decision, and as one of the entities who made it was a member financial institution, that bring it within the jurisdiction of the FOS.

Now previously I recommendation this may only be possible if you actually revoked consent.  However it now appear the FOS may be being “liberal” in its interpretation of what constitutes a “decision”, to include the mere fact that they simply handed over the money.

The decision is not on the FOS website so it appears to be mediated outcome.  As this is a closed group can you cut and paste the FB post.  

[clarry100]

Just reading more detail on this same case in another Facebook post. It seems that the seller had sent out an item that was supposed to include two bonus seals as part of the package. The buyer claimed SNAD as they said the seals were not included. The buyer launched an MBG case on the grounds of SNAD and despite the seller telling ebay they had sent out a replacement set of seals ebay still found in favour of the buyer and refunded without requiring that the item be returned.

The seller thinks the buyer was trying it on to get the item for free as they were sure the bonus seals were in the original shipment.

What I can't see from the post tho is if the buyer has had their refund revoked. So they may have still gotten their item free just that the seller is not out of pocket.

The amount was of the order of $55.

So this is encouraging for the rest of us to lodge an FOS complaint where you think you have been unfairly treated by ebay/paypal in these MBG cases.

[clarry100]

Here is a cut/paste of the resolution text posted on Facebook by the seller:

*********************************************************************************

FOS reference: 38xxxx
Our reference: 41xxxx

22 January 2015

Dear Marco Cavasassi,

Re: Recent enquiry to Financial Ombudsman Service about PayPal Australia Pty Limited

PayPal has received notification that you recently filed a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service regarding your PayPal account. We refer to your correspondence with the FOS dated 6 January 2015. FOS case number: xxxxx. I have reviewed your claim and provided a summary below.
1.
Your complaint:

Mr. Cavasassi, you disagree with eBay’s decision to close buyer complaint case PP-003-630-258-xxx in favour of the buyer. We sincerely regret any inconvenience caused in respect of this matter.

As requested we have issued a credit in the amount of $56.00 AUD to your PayPal account balance to fully reimburse this payment. You will see this reflected the next time that you log into your account.
2.
Details of the case:

Mr. Cavasassi, a review of your PayPal account with the registered email address marco@xxxxxxxxx.com, shows that on 18 December 2014 you received a payment in the amount of $56.00 AUD from john xxxx, for the eBay item ‘23 PIECES-VITAMIN SHOT BULLET EZI MAGIC BLENDER W/JUCIER - 2014 AUSTRALIAN MODEL ‪#‎17158082xxxx‬’, transaction 7LN15670RX6xxxxx.

The buyer filed a complaint on eBay - PP-003-xxx-258-xxx. Due to miscommunication, this case closed in their favour with a full refund being issued on 5 January 2015, however we understand that it was the bonus part only which was sent separately.
3.
Conclusion:

We apologise for the inconvenience caused, and have credited the amount of $56.00 AUD to your PayPal balance. We appreciate your patience and the valuable feedback which you have shared in relation to this case. We hope that the above information addresses your concerns.

Should you have any questions or require additional information, please contact us at auexecutiveescalations@paypal.com. Alternatively, if you are not satisfied with PayPal's resolution or handling of your dispute you may wish to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service:
Phone: 1300 780 808
Financial Ombudsman Service
GPO Box 3
MELBOURNE VIC 3001
Fax: (03) 9613 6399

PayPal is a member of the Financial Ombudsman Service, an independent external dispute resolution scheme covering PayPal's Australian Customers. For more information on the Financial Ombudsman Service you can also consult their website at www.fos.org.au.

Yours sincerely,

Emma Maher
Executive Escalations
PayPal Australia Pty Limited

Copyright © 1999-2015 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal Australia Pty Limited ABN 93 111 195 389 (PPA) holds an Australian Financial Services Licence, number 304962. Any general financial product advice provided in this email is provided by PPA and has not taken into account your objectives, financial situations or needs.

[clarry100]

Now having has the case overturned by the FOS it will be interesting to see if this seller can get any associated defects removed by ebay.

I will watch proceedings on the Facebook page with interest.

[gec2002]

I believe eBay can also recover the funds by adding the refund to your monthly account, so they may have the Paypal refund only to find thge refund amount is now added to the next invoice?

[thecatspjs]

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@tall_bearded01 wrote:

Which is exactly why what I’ve been saying. 

 

---

No it is nothing like what you have been saying.

You have said (including speculation on the FOS would have said   " I agreed with solution, but as decisions under the Guarantee are made by eBay (no PayPal) and as eBay and PayPal are separate legal entities, and as eBay is not a financial institution let alone a member of the Ombudsman Service, should the seller lodged have a complaint with the FOS, both eBay and PayPal would have responded by saying, “as the decision was made by eBay, and as eBay is neither a financial institution or a member, the complaint falls outside of the Ombudsman jurisdiction". 

You have advised sellers to revoke permission for Paypal to follow eBays direction relating to MBG cases.  Which IMO continues to be foolish advice.

If others followed your advice to take this path, it would have effectively ended the FOS ability to get involved via Paypal role in transaction.

Big backpedal.

[tall_bearded01]

I don’t understand.  Where is the contradiction?

As to what and who’s decisions fall within the Ombudsman’s jurisdiction, you really need to go to the ombudsman website, and to take special interest in the meaning of the word “Member” and then look to see if eBay is a member.

My advice has always been, to get it before it before the Ombudsman, you have to get PayPal to make a decision, and nothing provided thus far has invalidated that opinion. 

Take for instance the contents of the letter provided by Clarry100, which mind you is not a letter from the Ombudsman, or eBay, but from PayPal which seems to indicate that, before they, PayPal, can hand over the money, they might first be required review eBay’s decision; which would have the same effect as revoking the consent.  That is, it appears the existence of the consent notwithstanding, they might not be able to simply hand over the money. Instead before they hand it over, they might first be required to satisfied that eBay decision is correct, and if they find for eBay, and the seller objects, that is decision the seller can lodge a dispute with the ombudsman.

Now I do recall saying, if someone can come up with a better idea in all ears and Clarry100 seems to have come up with one.