Paypal Chargeback request, two on the same day....

[northern_4x4]

So this is strange. Ive done well over 10k of transactions since I started operating a few years back. Not one issue ever. Then I see two chargeback requests in my PP account, both requests on the same day. Both from Novemeber last year. I could provide evidence on one with a screenshot of the eBay transaction and PP receipt but no tracking destils as it was a cheap item so it was sent via normal post. The other I have C&S proof. All sent through to PP just waiting on the inevitable now.

I wonder if this is a PP stuff up, as I have never before had this happen and for it to happen twice on the same day is a bit suss.

[clarry100]

The one with tracking, I assume the status shows at least delivered to the buyers town/suburb. Or you have an over the country lodgement scan event. If yes then you should be covered by seller protection and win this case.

The other one with no tracking is likely to lose. Unless it's a low value and you have an excellent track record as you say. PayPal will sometimes award a NO FAULT closure. This means the buyer still gets their money but it comes out of PayPal not your account. We have had this happen once. I happened to strike a very friendly and helpful PayPal CSR on the phone. Good luck with this one and keep us posted on how you go.

[northern_4x4]

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@clarry100 wrote:
The one with tracking, I assume the status shows at least delivered to the buyers town/suburb. Or you have an over the country lodgement scan event. If yes then you should be covered by seller protection and win this case.

The other one with no tracking is likely to lose. Unless it's a low value and you have an excellent track record as you say. PayPal will sometimes award a NO FAULT closure. This means the buyer still gets their money but it comes out of PayPal not your account. We have had this happen once. I happened to strike a very friendly and helpful PayPal CSR on the phone. Good luck with this one and keep us posted on how you go.

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The issue is, as it was last year, the tracking no longer comes with any details with Aus Post. They must delete the records after a certain date. As I checked the entire days deliveries and not one tracking id worked.

As for the one with no tracking. I cannot see how or why I should lose, I have a screen shot of the eBay order, and the PP receipt with all the matching order details on there. So regardless of tracking or none. The sale was made and paid from the seller. How would one fudge this? Hack someones eBay account is the only way I can think of.

Also I sent meesages and emails to the two concerning asking if they lodged this with PP and if so to why, attaching a screenshot of their order and payment. The latter, with no tracking, has repsonded saying they will sort it out. So they knew what they were doing in my eyes and got caught out.

[lyndal1838]

Are they paypal disputes or bank chargebacks for items paid for through paypal?

They are two different processes and need to be addressed differently.

[northern_4x4]

Bank Charge backs through PayPal. So they've requested this to happen via their financial institution.

[digital*ghost]

The tracking isn't important so much as being able to prove the package was sent to the right address, along with proof of lodgement. If you have that, you should qualify for seller protection with the C&S one.

Is it definitely different buyers?

[northern_4x4]

The buyer that has no tracking on their goods has confirmed with me via email that have not requested this charge back and will contact their bank. Whether they are lying or not I do not know, but I have added this email conversation to the PP file of sellers comments, saying i can screen shot or forward this email on if need be.
The two charge back are from different buyers too. I haven't heard back from the second buyer.
Somethings not right with this...

[northern_4x4]

I just noticed one charge back has a reason code of 83, meaning fraudulent transaction and the other is 4837, No cardholder authorisation.

[davewil1964]

Banks have been known to claim unauthorised transactions when the cardholder goes over their credit limit. And the cardholder is not told. Which makes sense as the cardholder is not the one who ends up paying.

So rather than the cardholder being held responsible for spending money they don't have, or the bank being responsible for allowing such a transaction to proceed, the seller gets shafted.

I believe there is a $15 fee for an unsuccessful defence of a chargeback. For the untracked item, I would bend over - you have no proof the item was sent or delivered to the buyer. The other one, you should win as you have Paypal seller protection.

I would also contact, at least, the untracked buyer and suggest they might like to repay you rather than be reported to ACORN for online fraud.

[digital*ghost]

It's really hard to know what to believe sometimes.

There have been a lot of instances where the buyer has claimed no knowledge of the chargeback, so it seems like it's a really prevalent thing ...though, in saying that, if they're not the cardholder, it's quite likely true that they have no idea a chargeback was initiated, and perhaps sometimes "I'll contact the bank" means "I'll ask my mum / dad / husband / wife / boss....or just tell you I will, anyway" (which I say because sometimes nothing further ever comes of that).

But, I also know that people have spoken to banking staff and been advised that it is very rare for chargebacks to occur that were not initiated by the cardholder, and who have also been advised that the bank does not initiate chargebacks if the account goes over the limit or defaults. 

I don't have a high degree of trust in banks, but after some of my experiences with a few buyer-types and their propensity for tall tales at times, usually designed to lay the blame on anyone but themselves, I do kind of lean more in favour of the banks. It would be nice to know for sure, one day.