Returns

[draven281973]

I've got a situation that I'm wondering about.

I purchased a DVD from a UK seller (purchased from them before) that shipped the DVD from the UK. It's region 2, no problem there as my DVD player plays all regions.

It's a german import of an Icelandic movie and this is where the problem lies. No english subtitles. I only found this out when I received the DVD and checked. I rechecked the listing, and it does not mention this anywhere in the listing. I don't think it's asking too much to expect that a UK company, shipping something from the UK, to at least mention on the listing that it doesn't have english subtitles.

So anyways, obviously I would like to return it. And there lies in the problem. I contacted the company who advised it would need to be returned and provided the return address. However, I would have to pay the return shipping, which I've checked will be more than the value of the item. So I would get a refund, and be out of pocket and without the item.

I haven't contacted eBay yet, just wondered if people have experienced anything similiar?

[digital*ghost]

Putting this here in case it helps those who are inclined to do the right thing, or just in case it makes it easier to do the right thing for those who aren't usually that way inclined.

If you make a mistake with a purchase and want to return it, please look into the PayPal refunded returns scheme before anything else: https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns

[springyzone]

Without seeing the ad, it can be hard to entirely judge but I would generally expect any DVD sold in an English speaking country such as UK or Australia to be in English.

 If it is not, then I would expect an ad to be extremely clear about what language it is in.

Was your ad clear about that?

My stance is that anyone selling anything that does not conform to the normal expectations in a country eg language, electrical voltage etc should make it crystal clear in their ad.

Now, if your ad said the movie was in German or Icelandic language, and you wish to return it because you don't understand the language, then that is a change of mind return in my book. And yes, you should pay return postage, that would be fair enough.

There would be no logical reason to expect subtitles in English unless an ad specifically said there would be some. And I would expect an ad to say it as not everyone would want subtitles so it would be an important part of the information.

If, however, the ad did not mention that the DVD was not in English. If it did not mention it was in a foreign language, then I believe you would have the right to a return for not as described. I say that because you mention the cover of the DVD is in English. That, I believe, could reasonably be blamed for confusion if the ad did not mention that the movie was in fact in another language.

Just saying a movie is made in iceland or whatever is not enough. If in another language, it should clearly state what language. 

Basically-if the ad was clear about what language the movie was in, then it is a change of mind return. If the ad was not clear about that, then you'd have a right to feel peeved. 

[digital*ghost]

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@springyzone wrote:

I would generally expect any DVD sold in an English speaking country such as UK or Australia to be in English.

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That was the whole problem though.  

Expecting it, rather than making sure - ebay sellers aren't like a retail outlet such as JB Hi-Fi, where everything is designed to cater purely for the domestic market, ergo all movies available are either in English, or have English subtitles. 

I would be willing to bet the seller in question, if they have 700+ negs, are one of those media sellers that collate catalogues of titles available to them from all over the EU, and list item in massive volumes based on scant info they get from distributors - there are book, CD and DVD sellers in the EU who all do the same thing.  They get any and everything, and list it worldwide. 

[countessalmirena]

@draven281973,

I know how disappointed you are. I've ordered DVDs before with the hope that they'd have English subtitles, and found that they haven't got them... I remember that they were purchased for other people, and that was doubly a concern because I can handle my own disappointment, but someone else's disappointment is another thing altogether!

From memory, I know that I simply decided to keep those DVDs for myself and find versions that definitely had English subtitles for the people for whom I'd originally bought the DVDs. So... to this day I have some DVDs in my collection which are not things I'd ever have thought to buy for myself, and which have no subtitles. I don't really mind for myself; it's good practice for some languages which need it!

My DVD of "Das Boot" is the most irritating title I have in my collection. It actually does have subtitles (which I don't want or need) but they are ON PERMANENTLY. Moreover, they are an annoying yellow and extremely distracting. The first time I watched the film, I found myself drawn again and again to those yellow subtitles, and I kept muttering, "But that's not the right translation!" and mentally finding fault with almost every sentence. One day I'll give this DVD away and buy a replacement from Germany.

Icelandic / Nordic movies are so frequently excellent! The Nordic Noir genre in particular really appeals to me (and to many). I can make out a little in Danish and Swedish and Icelandic, but nowhere near enough to want a film without any English subtitles. I feel your pain.

But here's the issue. If a listing or catalogue result for a film doesn't mention subtitles, the default information is that there are no subtitles. The seller had no requirement to say, "No subtitles"; the absence of that information should be taken as implying that there are no subtitles, or - possibly - that there are only Icelandic and German subtitles. Even that is an assumption. I would not expect subtitles unless that information is present under the DVD details on the listing/result.

In particular, because this was a DVD zoned for Europe, a buyer can't assume that English subtitles are present. Especially when it comes to German DVDs, English subtitles are not usually included, as anyone who imports German DVDs quite often will know. Oddly some DVDs in a series won't have subtitles, while some will. For example, Der Brücke (German for The Bridge) Staffel 1 hasn't any subtitles at all (but the German population can still watch with pleasure because the language options are Swedish, Danish and German), whereas Staffel 4 offers not only those three language otions but it also includes Untertitel (subtitles): Englisch.

You bought your DVD with an expectation formed by your previous experience, but I'm willing to bet that your experience of foreign language films and DVDs from all over the world isn't as extensive as mine... and my experience tells me that I shouldn't assume that the DVD has subtitles (let alone subtitles in English) unless the description actually states that there are.

Please don't let your disappointment lead you to blame the seller, who has not done anything wrong. I perfectly understand that you think the seller should have stated "no subtitles", but the seller has no actual requirement to do so. By not mentioning subtitles, the seller has avoided leading you to rightly expect that there would be subtitles.

I should mention too that some DVD manufacturer release notes are very sparse on the details. Your seller may not have known whether or not there were subtitles, and would have been at fault if they did list "No subtitles". The details that the seller gave you appear to have been correct, and this means you don't have a case for claiming significantly not as described.

Are there any subtitles on the DVD at all? Or other language options? Perhaps someone you know would be glad to have the DVD! Or you could relist it on eBay, onsell it yourself? Then you could look for another DVD of the film which definitely does include subtitles. What's the title of the movie?

Best of luck; it's quite possible you can onsell the DVD without being out of pocket (or very little out of pocket).

[tazzieterror]

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@draven281973 wrote:

...

I assumed but it's pretty smoke and mirrors to leave it off.

No, it's not.

They mention the region as people have been caught out about it before, this is something just as important to mention.

No, it's not.

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The seller has done nothing wrong here and of course you'd be responsible for return shipping costs.

Just accept it as a lesson learned.

As an aside, Icelandic is a beautiful (though tricky) langauge - consider trying to enjoy the movie with its original dialogue.

[springyzone]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

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@springyzone wrote:

I would generally expect any DVD sold in an English speaking country such as UK or Australia to be in English.

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That was the whole problem though.  

Expecting it, rather than making sure - ebay sellers aren't like a retail outlet such as JB Hi-Fi, where everything is designed to cater purely for the domestic market, ergo all movies available are either in English, or have English subtitles. 

I would be willing to bet the seller in question, if they have 700+ negs, are one of those media sellers that collate catalogues of titles available to them from all over the EU, and list item in massive volumes based on scant info they get from distributors - there are book, CD and DVD sellers in the EU who all do the same thing.  They get any and everything, and list it worldwide. 

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I understand what you are saying and I have no objection at all to a distributor selling items from all over. That is fine.

I do think it is reasonable though that a buyer could see in an ad what language a DVD movie was in, especially when we are talking about one that had a cover with a title in English.

I actually don't care that a seller has scant information, that is their concern.

As a buyer, my concern is that I am given basic information & that that information is correct. 

I think that is a reasonable expectation.

If a seller is selling, say, 2000 DVDs and they are in a range of 60 different languages, then to me, basic info would be what region they are suitable for, the language they are in and the title of the movie.

I absolutely do not expect that a movie will  have English subtitles unless it says that in the actual ad.

To me, the whole discussion hinges on what was said in the actual ad for this DVD (which i haven't thought to try to trace).

If the ad said the movie was in eg German and it is in German, then it is exactly as described.

If the ad showed an English title on the DVD cover and was advertised on an English ebay site, using the English title and then a buyer found the contents were not in English, then that would be another matter.

[tazzieterror]

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@springyzone wrote:

...

If the ad showed an English title on the DVD cover and was advertised on an English ebay site, using the English title and then a buyer found the contents were not in English, then that would be another matter.

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I believe this is the item in question (#352569787953)

Metalhead

All information on the cover appears to be in German (well, apart from the title).

[tazzieterror]

And for what it's worth, a 10-second google search of the barcode number given in that listing (4042564155044) leads to several product pages on various sites indicating that particular DVD release has audio in German and Icelandic only, and subtitles only in German.

[digital*ghost]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

I believe this is the item in question (#352569787953)

Metalhead

All information on the cover appears to be in German (well, apart from the title).

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Clear case of thinking more about where it was available than where it was from. 

[digital*ghost]

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@springyzone wrote:

To me, the whole discussion hinges on what was said in the actual ad for this DVD (which i haven't thought to try to trace).

If the ad said the movie was in eg German and it is in German, then it is exactly as described.

If the ad showed an English title on the DVD cover and was advertised on an English ebay site, using the English title and then a buyer found the contents were not in English, then that would be another matter.

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All of that was made clear in the OP, though.

They obviously knew they were buying a German issue of the movie, because the only thing they were surprised by was that the German issue didn't have English subtitles.