Have they determined whether the police

[donnashuggy]

Fired and hit any of the hostages yesterday yet?

[ca04 · Accepted solution]

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@aps1080 wrote:

"I have read that was valid was the clear vision the police had of him and could have taken him out before any of this happened."

Really ? Where was that written or said ?

Clear vision but not a clear shot - they had glass in the way and glass deflects bullets and might (almost certainly will) spray glass shards throughout the inside of the cafe where you had hostages spread all over with every glass shard likely to cut and injure.

In addition, if it was that thick glass with a plastic layer through it, you have even more problems ?

Unless you are 100% certain of a kill shot, a sniper shot does not combine the elements of surprise,

maximum disorientation (flash bangs), maximum force and maximum entries at the same time.

The snipers in view did their secondary job of identifying when it all turned badly and where the hostage was located

who had been shot.

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There is a system for shooting  a person though glass involving at least 2 snipers and the composition of the glass could have been obtained from the building plan details.

This is a question that comes up after  these instances where,in some cases it was a clear shot, and pepole were killed because the shot was not taken.

It is my belief that person/persons that place people in these positions do not derserve any consideration.

[softail-joanie]

Have they determined whether the police Fired and hit any of the hostages yesterday yet?

I have no idea, but in a incident such as this, high profile, big news, police are pretty smart. They will be careful not to do anything that might be used against them in an attempt to give them a bad reputation. This isn't gonna be like a cop just coming up to someone in a routine incident, something not likely to make the news. I'm sure they will be following protocalls and acting appropretly.  They see this as an oppertunity to display themselves as good honest, brave, and selfless. To gain support from the community, and on the surface theres nothing wrong with that.

[ca04]

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@donnashuggy wrote:

I am fairly sure it was said on CNN by an expert on these matters.

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The antiigun people never miss a chance to blacken gun licencing.

[polksaladallie]

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@ca04 wrote:

There is a system for shooting  a person though glass involving at least 2 snipers and the composition of the glass could have been obtained from the building plan details.

This is a question that comes up after  these instances where,in some cases it was a clear shot, and pepole were killed because the shot was not taken.

It is my belief that person/persons that place people in these positions do not derserve any consideration.

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The glass apparently was double glazed, and sniper shots would not have been successful. (So say the authorities)

[goldenjet16]

Now your an expert on the Sidney police department too!! 🙂

[aps1080]

ca04

Yes, multiple shooters / snipers. But the other factors still come into play, glass type, you need abullet that will go through without deflection AND be terminal on the other side. You then have the ricochet factor, a whole range of things.

And of course you need to be 100% sure you will actually pull it off.

Can't seem to remember many hostage situations that have been started and ended with a snipers bullets.

Most are Maximum everything at the same time, the elements of surprise, maximum disorientation (flash bangs),

maximum force and maximum entries at the same time.

[***super_nova***]

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@polksaladallie wrote:

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@ca04 wrote:

There is a system for shooting  a person though glass involving at least 2 snipers and the composition of the glass could have been obtained from the building plan details.

This is a question that comes up after  these instances where,in some cases it was a clear shot, and pepole were killed because the shot was not taken.

It is my belief that person/persons that place people in these positions do not derserve any consideration.

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The glass apparently was double glazed, and sniper shots would not have been successful. (So say the authorities)

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Not to mention that nobody knew what was in the backpack.

[softail-joanie]

Now your an expert on the Sidney police department too!!

You said it not me, I don't claim to be an expert on anything. But it does go to show, I can make a reply saying the police are smart, brave and selfless, (or were in this case) and still get hastled about it.

Most everything if not everything I post on these boards are just findings, things I come across and well, think of it as a show and tell. I may offer my own take, or opinions, welcome others, but I don't make this stuff up. Don't shoot the messenger. OK?

[icyfroth]

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@donnashuggy wrote:

Fired and hit any of the hostages yesterday yet?

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You really want it so badly to be the police that shot any of them?

[aps1080]

joanie

they are called SOP's - standard opersting procedures, practised till you are blue in the face and they become instinctive,

like you know where your oppo is at all times, you walk up behind an oppo and touch him on the shoulder so he know you

are there and ready, you go through the door and you go right, he goes left, both sweeping the room a certain way

(if of course you don't know where someone is exactly).

The last thing on there mind is thinking of trying to "display themselves as good honest, brave, and selfless and to gain

support from the community."

They will be thinking of the faces of the perp and the hostages so that if or when they go in and a face pops up in the light

or the sights, your brain had a split second to decide if it is a hostage or a terrorist. Remember it is dark as well !

Here they had ONE terrorist to remember and they had seen him so knew what he was wearing.

Imagine 5 or 6 of them, most unseen or unheard and 20 - 30 hostages and having to remember all of them.

(Iranian Embassy siege - 1980 was exactly as above).

Also, everything is against the Police or Military who go in. It is rare that all hostages survive,

you just try to minimise any deaths.

So I think you are wrong.