Chargebacks

[character_parties_aus]

Hello

We have received a chargeback via paypal assuming that the buyer paid by credit card. The details of the chargeback are vague. All we know is that it is a merchandise chargeback for approx $50 for an item not as described or damaged in some way. Paypal does not cover us for seller protection in this instance. We have had no contact from the buyer at any point. The items were delivered by tracked post 3 weeks ago.

Paypal have said - send us a picture and other totally useless stuff like that so they can fight it. They dont really have any intention of that of course.

I would be interested to hear of any useful ways of fighting chargebacks. We dont actually know the nature of the complaint as there has been no contact with the buyer but I am struggling to see how some paper party bags get damaged in the post. However perhaps we did send the wrong item we dont actually know!

We have so far

- Lodged a report to ACORN and told the buyer we have reported the transaction to ACORN as there has been no contact from them. Whilst we are not perfect sellers if there is an issue we need to know to resolve it! We have no idea of what the issue is if any other than a merchandise chargeback.

- Submitted a copy of our returns policy including any disputes to paypal which the buyer is in breach of as they failed to inform us of any issues or submit any evidence to us of such - which leads me to suggest its fraud.

- 2 people can confirm what was sent as the packing process includes a 2 stage check to make sure goods sent are as ordered.

Its only $50 but its the principle. Any other ideas of fighting such fraud are welcome!

[character_parties_aus]

I've got no idea why I am not covered. Thats what I was told when I called paypal ( I recorded the call).

Paypal does not cover sellers for merchandise chargebacks. The reason  would be quite obvious really - you could send anything you like get loads of chargebacks and paypal would have to pay for them.

[lyndal1838]

I may be very wrong but I think the paypal rep was also very, very wrong.

If it is correct I think a lot of sellers are going to be very surprised.

[digital*ghost]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

I may be very wrong but I think the paypal rep was also very, very wrong.

If it is correct I think a lot of sellers are going to be very surprised.

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Not me... 

PayPal don't provide Seller Protection on any form of 'Not As Described' case, which makes sense if you think about it - as in, either the case is resolved in the seller's favour and the item was deemed as described (in which case the buyer isn't due their money back), or the case is resolved in the buyer's favour and the item is deemed not as described, (in which case the seller is obliged to refund, generally on return of the goods). 

Seller Protection applies when the buyer receives a refund but not from the seller, so while PayPal will pay out of their own pocket for discretionary payments (in cases like INR), or if the seller qualifies for SP in cases like unauthorised use, they're (usually) not quite generous enough to offer to pay for not as described items. 

[lyndal1838]

Thanks Digi, as usual you make sense.

But what happens if the item was broken...obviously not as described but hardly the seller's fault.

It looks to me as though the OP's buyer knows the ropes and was not going to take a chance on a paypal claim being rejected so goes with the option where the seller cannot defend the claim.

[digital*ghost]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

Thanks Digi, as usual you make sense.

But what happens if the item was broken...obviously not as described but hardly the seller's fault.

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Well, the same could be said for INR, when the seller has proof of post but not delivery, or proof of delivery even if the buyer hasn't received the item - i.e. the fault often lies with the delivery service, but in many cases, at least one party, who isn't at fault, is out of pocket.

Breakages tends to be one of the greyer areas with disputes, especially for online purchases. I know eBay's MBG doesn't cover breakages during transit, but the practical reality is that in most cases, unless the buyer is willing to work with the seller and take the item + packaging to Aus Post (if they were used), the responsibility falls to the seller, as a lot of buyers won't know or care when or how the damage occured, just that it did and their item is 'not as described' on receipt. 

I just wish the systems in place (banks, PayPal, eBay) didn't effectively treat situations like this with the following - we can't know if the buyer is telling the truth, hence we'll assume they are, and we can't know if the seller is telling the truth, hence we'll assume they're not. (At least, that's how it generally seems to me). 

[character_parties_aus]

To provide clarity we sent 3 packs of high end ( premium) party bags. Chance of breakage is pretty much zero - chance of wrong item is also pretty much zero as there is a 2 stage check process in place   We dont know if they are broken and we dont know if they are not as described. Hence we have enacted our return policy as the buyer is in breach of the return policy,

[sparrow2207]

Have you considered that the items were damaged by rain or mishandling in transit???

As the buyer has not informed you of the problem you immediately assume fraud.  You have also stated they are new with only 4 feedback.

Lots of banks cover you for receiving damaged items or items breaking within a certain period of time after purchase.  I know mine does.

The purchaser may not have a PP account and paid using a credit card without logging in to PayPal.  If this is the case they would claim through the CC provider and not PP.

[shepherdsrule]

Pretty sure the OP [seller] would know if the buyer had paid directly by CC, the OP would have to have a merchant id and cc facility, and would be very easy to track the transaction.

[*tippy*toes*]

No, the seller doesn't need merchant CC facilities. If a buyer pays as a guest through PayPal they can only pay with a credit card. The only inkling a seller might have is a difference in the email they get from PayPal. When someone pays via PayPal, by logging in, the email subject will be something like:

Item Number 12345678 - Notification of an Instant Payment Received from <buyers ID> (<buyers email address>).

If they've paid as a guest it comes through as something like "You've received new funds!"

[englishrosegardens]

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@*tippy*toes* wrote:

No, the seller doesn't need merchant CC facilities. If a buyer pays as a guest through PayPal they can only pay with a credit card. The only inkling a seller might have is a difference in the email they get from PayPal. When someone pays via PayPal, by logging in, the email subject will be something like:

Item Number 12345678 - Notification of an Instant Payment Received from <buyers ID> (<buyers email address>).

If they've paid as a guest it comes through as something like "You've received new funds!"

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You get that type of email if they use the cart, which you'd probably never see if you only do auctions (not sure about that).