Making formal legal complaint against eBay, any advice?

[clubcar]

We are a Golf Cart business that operates a showroom and our own industry leading website. We advertise vehicles on our website, eBay as well as Facebook and sometimes even Instagram.

I recently advertised a Petrol golf cart which are very rare. We listed this item on eBay and received a few messages. The vehicle was on display in our showroom. We received a few messages from customers in regional areas asking about delivery costs to various areas. One customer sent a phone number (I did not ask for it or respond to their message). In the meantime, as often happends, a customer came in and bought it. So I ended the item on eBay as it was no longer available.

Now we are suspended from eBay for selling the item outside of eBay - when I queried this with eBay, they say, we were suspended from eBay because sharing contact details is not allowed - At no point did we share any details, at no point did we request any details. At no time did we reply to the customer who sent their details. When I asked how we can be responsible for what other people say, their arrogant response is simply "we understand but the decision is final". So now we are suspended because of something a customer did and may do again. Obviously it is impossible for us to be res

What is the best way to make a formal complaint against eBay? Is it worth contracting a solicitor? Anyone had any success on making a complaint through the ombudsman?

[collect247]

It's funny though because in a court of law how would ebay prove a seller has sold outside of ebay while listing the item on ebay just because someone has left their phone number with the seller?

OP obviously has all the proof of sale and that it wasn't sold to anyone that had anything to do with ebay.

That's where the proof lies,the actual buyer wasn't in any shape or form affiliated with ebay or on ebay's site so ebay needs to lick their wounds and if ebay takes any fees then OP needs to recover them.

I fought ebay for 3 years to recover what I was owed and I finally won.

The amount I was owed was worth fighting for until the end of time lol.

[lupercal]

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@brerrabbit585 wrote:
It's in their terms. From ebay's point of view, if you advertise something on their site and you sell it, they're entitled to their fees. Too many people would have sold pick-up items previously and never paid any fees on them.

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I imagine it's in their terms. I'm not sure that means it's legal. 

It sounds dodgy in general, but dodgy in particular in the case of the OP, where ebay would have no evidence whatsoever that any sale had taken place off-site, whether their terms covered that contigency or not. If that stood up to legal scrutiny, they may as well just have a clause that says 'we reserve the right to arbitrarily charge you whatever we feel like for no particular reason'.

Obviously I'm out of my depth here, but there must be a point at which any agreement between two parties runs up against broader laws, and taking money from someone on the unprovable assertion that they did business somewhere else sounds like a candidate - especially where the party doing the billing has already admitted that it was all because of an unsolicited message which the member didn't reply to, and that it wasn't their fault.

I know it''s not established that this has actually happened in this case; I'm just basing this on the assertion that ebay routinely engage in this practice and hypothetically may do so in the OP's case.

[brerrabbit585]

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@lupercal wrote:

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@brerrabbit585 wrote:
It's in their terms. From ebay's point of view, if you advertise something on their site and you sell it, they're entitled to their fees. Too many people would have sold pick-up items previously and never paid any fees on them.

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I imagine it's in their terms. I'm not sure that means it's legal. 

It sounds dodgy in general, but dodgy in particular in the case of the OP, where ebay would have no evidence whatsoever that any sale had taken place off-site, whether their terms covered that contigency or not. If that stood up to legal scrutiny, they may as well just have a clause that says 'we reserve the right to arbitrarily charge you whatever we feel like for no particular reason'.

Obviously I'm out of my depth here, but there must be a point at which any agreement between two parties runs up against broader laws, and taking money from someone on the unprovable assertion that they did business somewhere else sounds like a candidate - especially where the party doing the billing has already admitted that it was all because of an unsolicited message which the member didn't reply to, and that it wasn't their fault.

I know it''s not established that this has actually happened in this case; I'm just basing this on the assertion that ebay routinely engage in this practice and hypothetically may do so in the OP's case.

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I'm no expert either but I think ebay would get away with doing it.  The OP withdrew their listing and that's an indication that they sold the item, whether or not they sold it to the person who sent their phone number or not.  When you list an item you agree to pay $X in fees if it sells.  For a person to argue that they don't have to pay the fees they'd have to prove to ebay that they didn't sell it to the person who sent the message.  

"If you are a seller, you are liable for transaction fees arising out of all sales made using some or all eBay services, even if sales terms are finalised or payment is made outside of eBay. In particular, if you offer or reference your contact information or ask a buyer for their contact information in the context of buying or selling outside of eBay, you will be liable to pay a final value fee applicable to that item."

The Trading Post used to have much the same terms - you paid the selling fees if it sold, regardless of whether the person bought it through your ad or some other way.

[collect247]

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@brerrabbit585 wrote:

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@lupercal wrote:

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@brerrabbit585 wrote:
It's in their terms. From ebay's point of view, if you advertise something on their site and you sell it, they're entitled to their fees. Too many people would have sold pick-up items previously and never paid any fees on them.

---

I imagine it's in their terms. I'm not sure that means it's legal. 

It sounds dodgy in general, but dodgy in particular in the case of the OP, where ebay would have no evidence whatsoever that any sale had taken place off-site, whether their terms covered that contigency or not. If that stood up to legal scrutiny, they may as well just have a clause that says 'we reserve the right to arbitrarily charge you whatever we feel like for no particular reason'.

Obviously I'm out of my depth here, but there must be a point at which any agreement between two parties runs up against broader laws, and taking money from someone on the unprovable assertion that they did business somewhere else sounds like a candidate - especially where the party doing the billing has already admitted that it was all because of an unsolicited message which the member didn't reply to, and that it wasn't their fault.

I know it''s not established that this has actually happened in this case; I'm just basing this on the assertion that ebay routinely engage in this practice and hypothetically may do so in the OP's case.

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I'm no expert either but I think ebay would get away with doing it.  The OP withdrew their listing and that's an indication that they sold the item, whether or not they sold it to the person who sent their phone number or not.  When you list an item you agree to pay $X in fees if it sells.  For a person to argue that they don't have to pay the fees they'd have to prove to ebay that they didn't sell it to the person who sent the message.  

"If you are a seller, you are liable for transaction fees arising out of all sales made using some or all eBay services, even if sales terms are finalised or payment is made outside of eBay. In particular, if you offer or reference your contact information or ask a buyer for their contact information in the context of buying or selling outside of eBay, you will be liable to pay a final value fee applicable to that item."

The Trading Post used to have much the same terms - you paid the selling fees if it sold, regardless of whether the person bought it through your ad or some other way.

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And I'm positive that OP can and did provide that proof.

[countessalmirena]

eBay would have to prove that the sale occurred as a result of "using some or all eBay services".

It's one thing to list an item on eBay and elsewhere, and to have a sale occur without the sale occurring within eBay. It's another thing entirely to establish that the item's having been listed on eBay was causative to the sale.

If a seller were to challenge an instance of having been charged FVFs simply because a listed item was ended on eBay by the seller (without a sale having taken place through eBay) and a potential buyer having sent a message with phone number, it wouldn't be a difficult case. All it would take is testimony or evidence from the buyer that they are not the person who contacted the seller through eBay, and that they saw that the item was for sale through some other means.

It's simply that most sellers wouldn't think that the FVF would justify the cost and inconvenience of lodging a case against eBay. If ever a seller decides to pursue such a case on principle, it would be interesting to see... but my guess is that it would never get to court as eBay would almost certainly credit the seller with the FVFs charged once a case had actually been lodged.

[padi*0409]

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@countessalmirena wrote:

It's simply that most sellers wouldn't think that the FVF would justify the cost and inconvenience of lodging a case against eBay. If ever a seller decides to pursue such a case on principle, it would be interesting to see... 

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I think it would be a very brave/foolhardy seller to pursue the case against eBay, unless eBay is not their main source of income - they simply have too many strings to their bows.

Not the least being to restrict accounts..................crow can testify to that scenario, even though that was a few years ago.

[brerrabbit585]

And I'm positive that OP can and did provide that proof.

How can you know this?  OP didn't say anything at all on that point.  They didn't even say they'd been charged fees. 

It wouldn't be easy to prove it wasn't anything to do with ebay, especially if the buyer paid by cash and the OP doesn't know who they are, or even if they paid with a credit card.  They just may not be willing to get involved, even if the seller was able to contact them, which they may not be able to do.

[collect247]

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@brerrabbit585 wrote:

And I'm positive that OP can and did provide that proof.

How can you know this?  OP didn't say anything at all on that point.  They didn't even say they'd been charged fees. 

It wouldn't be easy to prove it wasn't anything to do with ebay, especially if the buyer paid by cash and the OP doesn't know who they are, or even if they paid with a credit card.  They just may not be willing to get involved, even if the seller was able to contact them, which they may not be able to do.

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Like I said I'm positive 

[imastawka]

OP stated it was sold out of their showroom.

Surely they provide receipts for such large sales?

It also comes up in sold listings, so fees woud have been paid.

[digital*ghost]

Just as a general aside...

It sounds like ending a listing after getting an enquiry might be what triggers the problem.

There are other ways to make an item unavailable on eBay without ending a listing - I wonder if that would make any difference...