Annoyed with refund from US$ to Australian Dollars.

[tulip*place]

Purchased an item early August from the United States.  Paid US$15.00. Paypal conversion then to Australian Dollars $24.90.

Item has arrived but there was an issue with it and seller has agreed to refund US$15.00.  I was hoping the amount in Australian Dollars for the refund would be close to the $24.90 that was paid a few weeks ago.  Somewhere $4.07 has been lost and the refund is A$20.83.   This seems a bit greedy by Paypal.

[11dustyattic]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

In the past refunds used to be processed at the same rate as the original transaction if it is within (I think, 6 weeks)....not sure when it changed or if indeed it has changed.

I am inclined to think that this discrepancy has come about because paypal no longer refunds their fees.

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 But the seller pays the fees. Unless the seller refunded less the fees and paypal  closed the case?

[lyndal1838]

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@tazzieterror wrote:

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

In the past refunds used to be processed at the same rate as the original transaction if it is within (I think, 6 weeks)....not sure when it changed or if indeed it has changed.

...

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If that's the case it must have been quite a while ago, as I'm pretty sure I recall a purchase I made from a HK seller around 2007 or 2008 where I lost about $60 due to exchange rate differences between purchase and refund (the purchase total was a little over $2000).

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But how long was it between payment and refund?

I believe the refund had to be within 6 weeks to qualify.....in the OPs case the payment and refund were in August.

[lyndal1838]

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@11dustyattic wrote:

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

In the past refunds used to be processed at the same rate as the original transaction if it is within (I think, 6 weeks)....not sure when it changed or if indeed it has changed.

I am inclined to think that this discrepancy has come about because paypal no longer refunds their fees.

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 But the seller pays the fees. Unless the seller refunded less the fees and paypal  closed the case?

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The seller would have to refund more than the $15 if the buyer was to receive $15 because paypal will not refund their original fees.

[11dustyattic]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

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@11dustyattic wrote:

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

In the past refunds used to be processed at the same rate as the original transaction if it is within (I think, 6 weeks)....not sure when it changed or if indeed it has changed.

I am inclined to think that this discrepancy has come about because paypal no longer refunds their fees.

---

 But the seller pays the fees. Unless the seller refunded less the fees and paypal  closed the case?

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The seller would have to refund more than the $15 if the buyer was to receive $15 because paypal will not refund their original fees.

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I have no idea what you're talking about. Sellers only refund the actual amount the buyer paid. The paypal fees that they already paid when they first received the payment, are gone, not refundable generally, not after that period of time

[tazzieterror]

I think it would have been within a fortnight...but it was so long ago now, Lyndal! 😄

[porcelain_dolls_by_me]

As bad as the PayPal fx conversion rates are, there is no way they would have converted USD15.00 to AUD24.90

There is more to this tale than is being told

[digital*ghost]

I don't know about polices from too long ago, but the policy to use the original transaction currency within the first 6 weeks that had previously been in place, was changed in 2019 to use the exchange rate on the day the refund was issued.

They also appear to be charging conversion fees both ways - when a buyer pays for an item in a different currency, PayPal charge the buyer a 4% fee above the actual rate, worked into their exchange rate. So, for example, a USD$15 payment currently converts (via google currency conversion) to AUD$20.95. Add 4% (which is 84c), and the price a buyer pays will be roughly $21.79 (this is always a few dollars off for me when I do my estimations, for example yesterday I made a USD$601 payment and using the above method - converted amount plus 4% - resulted in a $5 discrepancy (what I paid was $5 more than my rough calculation). 

Anyway, my point - from the May 2019 user agreement update, I found this (the percentage for conversions to USD used to be 3.5%):

"We are changing the PayPal currency conversion fee to 4% for converting all currencies (including US and Canadian dollars), for transactions that involve a PayPal currency conversion when you pay for goods or services, receive a refund (beyond 1 day from the original payment) or send money. For all other transactions involving a PayPal currency conversion, we are changing the PayPal currency conversion fee to 3%. " 

The interesting thing about this (and which I did not realise until now as I've not had a refund from a foreign transaction in a long time) is that they appear to be saying they charge a currency conversion fee when you get a refund, as well. It wasn't actually that long ago that a $15 USD payment would have cost close to $25, the Aussie dollar did drop down to 56c at one stage (maybe around Jun-Jul it would have cost around $25?), and if PayPal do indeed charge a second currency conversion fee on refunds, that likely explains the higher discrepancy. 

[11dustyattic]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

I don't know about polices from too long ago, but the policy to use the original transaction currency within the first 6 weeks that had previously been in place, was changed in 2019 to use the exchange rate on the day the refund was issued.

They also appear to be charging conversion fees both ways - when a buyer pays for an item in a different currency, PayPal charge the buyer a 4% fee above the actual rate, worked into their exchange rate. So, for example, a USD$15 payment currently converts (via google currency conversion) to AUD$20.95. Add 4% (which is 84c), and the price a buyer pays will be roughly $21.79 (this is always a few dollars off for me when I do my estimations, for example yesterday I made a USD$601 payment and using the above method - converted amount plus 4% - resulted in a $5 discrepancy (what I paid was $5 more than my rough calculation). 

Anyway, my point - from the May 2019 user agreement update, I found this (the percentage for conversions to USD used to be 3.5%):

"We are changing the PayPal currency conversion fee to 4% for converting all currencies (including US and Canadian dollars), for transactions that involve a PayPal currency conversion when you pay for goods or services, receive a refund (beyond 1 day from the original payment) or send money. For all other transactions involving a PayPal currency conversion, we are changing the PayPal currency conversion fee to 3%. " 

The interesting thing about this (and which I did not realise until now as I've not had a refund from a foreign transaction in a long time) is that they appear to be saying they charge a currency conversion fee when you get a refund, as well. It wasn't actually that long ago that a $15 USD payment would have cost close to $25, the Aussie dollar did drop down to 56c at one stage (maybe around Jun-Jul it would have cost around $25?), and if PayPal do indeed charge a second currency conversion fee on refunds, that likely explains the higher discrepancy. 

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That was really interesting and most likely explains the discrepency. I haven't had any international transactions at all, buying or selling, for quite a number of years. Well they're making a tidy little sum then aren"t they

[shoppingbag*]

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@tulip*place wrote:

Will be thinking seriously buying from overseas in future,  The cost of the item was $15 us plus  with the shipping, import charges and gst the item cost over $90 Australian.  

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What if it is an item you want that is not available in Australia? That is my problem all the time and if I want these things I have no choice but to buy internationally. I jlust make sure to avoid The Global Shipping Program.

[tazzieterror]

For situations like this—particularly if the item isn't high value—I've sometimes bought four or five copies of an item that I've only needed one of, then resold the extras locally to recoup some of the shipping and import charges.