Post Office failure v Dodgy sellers

[sporthoflo]

Either the post offices in China AND Australia are really bad, or there are many dodgy sellers who give tracking numbers for very very long estimate delivery dates but items are never sent. Perhaps in the hope that buyers forget about it and miss the claim for a refund. I have been buying from ebay since its inception but I am now finding more and more items never eventually arrive. If there is an increase in bad apples, ebay should start taking ameliorating measures. Otherwise it will become associated with an untrusted marketplace. Much like certain other competing platform such as AliE***** and BangG***. Perhaps a start could be a shorter delivery timeframe. 3 months seems a little long, even in Covid times.

[sporthoflo]

Jellybirddesign, yes I do try to do my due diligence. The intent of the original post is to raise an awareness in the buyer community of potential tactics of unsavoury sellers. Despite online marketplace transactions now no longer novel, the tactics of fraud in this space nevertheless continue to evolve.

And no, I try not to blackist a whole geographical region due to a few bad apples.

[sporthoflo]

Tipping-point, I assume you were addressing my original post when referring to "Mr Point".  If so, as intimated in my other responses, I am agnostic to the country of origin of a seller. Any purchase decision is a nuanced and balanced consideration of various factors above mentioned.

As to your comment of "I told him to expect a wait of 2-3 months", I'm not sure who you are, nor which item you refer. I do not recall such a communication from a seller, so perhaps your response was misguided or addressed to someone else? I certainly do not remember purchasing "3 items, one arrived in 9 days, another 14 days, and the other, 17 days".

And a point of order, I do not have "a lot of issues buying on ebay". I have been purchasing on this platform (and others) for over two decades, and have done so when based in 3 different continents over that period. The majority have been received without issue. The original post was a reflection of the trend I experienced over that time.

The fact that you have one good non-delivery experience does not negate the bad experience of others. It is a straw man argument.  The fact that you have purchased a LOT (sic) of items from certain geographical region is also irrelevant. It seems you have a tendency to blame the victim.

In an online platform of  faceless small sellers, there is no singular way to gain trust for buyers. This is in contrast to a brick and mortar business where there is a person to communicate any displeasure, or a known big company with an established reputation by word of mouth.

The closest one can get to trust before making a purchase decision online is looking at the feedback of other buyers and the amount of time the seller has been in existence. On the first point, this is not a guaranteed measure. This is since fake and/or robotic feedback are commonplace. On the second point, the longer that a business is in existence the greater number of feedback it will receive. It is a necessary wicked problem since no seller is perfect.

It would serve the buying community, and this online marketplace, well if responses were more constructive. Attacking another buyer's experience is not.

[sandypebbles]

Or perhaps, Tipping-Point was referring to their other half by calling them 'Mr-Point'

That is certainly how I read their comment 

Not seen any attacking, just responses based on fact

Many people take issue with factual answers, but that is what many people here give

If people choose not to check who they are buying from, that is their choice and part of that choice is to help help dodgey sellers in business 

[sporthoflo]

I believe this was an item listed as being based in Australia and sent by Australia Post. But when questioned about the inordinate delay then informs that the item was located overseas. The order could not then be cancelled as it had then been apparently posted. The seller also then indicated that it does not come with an AU plug. This was not mentioned in the listing, that by all indication, was an Australia-suitable item based in Australia. Overall, the listing was misleading and deceptive.

For this item, there was a conscious decision to get something locally as I needed it soon. It was something that I could have gotten from a local shop but have chosen not to in compliance of the Covid recommendations to stay at home.

[sporthoflo]

Sandypebbles,

Tipping-Point's response was nevertheless a confused response with ambigiuous content. This especially if the so-called factual information relates to a matter foreign to me. So from the perspective of what information is actually relevant it did seemed to me like an attack on the buyer since it was context-absent/adjacent.

I cannot give a generalised hypothetical assessment of what people (many or otherwise) give here and the ostensibly bad reception it receives. I can only addressed a specific point as I see it in a specific coontext.

I have no argument about the need to check the sellers before purchase. But as noted in my other responses, this is not always useful in a faceless online platform. It is but one of a basket of factors balanced against other nuanced considerations. As such, when buyers experience certain issues, it is always useful to raise as a notice for others to consider. It adds to that basket of factors.

[gutterpunkz05]

This should be right up your alley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_UegL1R3X8

[springyzone]

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@sporthoflo wrote:

I believe this was an item listed as being based in Australia and sent by Australia Post. But when questioned about the inordinate delay then informs that the item was located overseas. The order could not then be cancelled as it had then been apparently posted. The seller also then indicated that it does not come with an AU plug. This was not mentioned in the listing, that by all indication, was an Australia-suitable item based in Australia. Overall, the listing was misleading and deceptive.

For this item, there was a conscious decision to get something locally as I needed it soon. It was something that I could have gotten from a local shop but have chosen not to in compliance of the Covid recommendations to stay at home.

First off, I don't believe Australia Post is bad, overall. I'd say they are reasonably efficient and honest.

That has been my personal experience in any case. I did sell years ago and out of a few thousand transactions, nothing ever went missing.

I've bought from China occasionally too and obviously things take a bit longer but again, nothing has ever failed to arrive.

Not saying there are never failures in either postal system, just that when I hear of problems, I am often very suspicious that the problem lies with the seller. And that definitely sounds the case with your transaction.

I would say you have every right (when the item arrives) to make a claim based on the fact the item is not as described. I would be absolutely livid if I bought something based in Australia (or so an ad claimed) and was told later it did not come with an AU plug. Totally unacceptable.

But I am unsure about one thing. When you bought, what was the delivery time frame? For an item in Australia, you'd think it would be no longer than 2-3 weeks. It is sounding as if the item has gone well over the estimated delivery window. If that is the case, I'd be opening an ebay claim for item not received if you can. You get 30 days after the ETA I think.

If that time has passed and you can't open a claim, try paypal as you get 180 days.

I wouldn't give this particular seller another day's grace.

Good luck.

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[sporthoflo]

Hi Springyzone,

Re "First off, I don't believe Australia Post is bad, overall. I'd say they are reasonably efficient and honest.

That has been my personal experience in any case. I did sell years ago and out of a few thousand transactions, nothing ever went missing."

I concur that the frontline AusPost is good. The issue is that there are too many departments in a large organisation. The efficiency of my daily (or every few days now) postie is not often matched by his backoffice colleagues. Per my previous comment, an individual experience does not negate the experience of others. A cursory seach on Google will reveal that my experience is not unique. That said, I would be slow to point the finger at AusPost solely. It may be the postal service overseas itself, the various intermediaries that a parcel passes through, and/or the interaction between a foreign postal service and Auspost when it lands on our shores.

Re "I've bought from China occasionally too and obviously things take a bit longer but again, nothing has ever failed to arrive."

Per above, an individual experience cannot be extrapolated and imposed on that of others. Obviously by the pure logic of probabilities, the greater number the transactions, the greater chance of things going wrong. That said, the point I was making is that the reliability seemed to have degraded over the last two decades.

Re "Not saying there are never failures in either postal system, just that when I hear of problems, I am often very suspicious that the problem lies with the seller. And that definitely sounds the case with your transaction."

I do not disagree. Which is why I ask in my original post where the problem lies. The hypothesis of an increase number of fraudulent tactics was one offered by AusPost itself.

Re "I would say you have every right (when the item arrives) to make a claim based on the fact the item is not as described. I would be absolutely livid if I bought something based in Australia (or so an ad claimed) and was told later it did not come with an AU plug. Totally unacceptable."

Alas it was indeed annoying.

Re "But I am unsure about one thing. When you bought, what was the delivery time frame? For an item in Australia, you'd think it would be no longer than 2-3 weeks. It is sounding as if the item has gone well over the estimated delivery window. If that is the case, I'd be opening an ebay claim for item not received if you can. You get 30 days after the ETA I think."

From memory it was listed as 1 or 2 weeks delivery, which would be consistent with the view of a purely local endeavour in Covid times. I didn't file a dispute as the item eventually did arrive, and worked with a simple AU adapter.

[countessalmirena]

There are many reasons why I avoid purchasing from Chinese eBay sellers.

This post discusses some of them.

This other post discusses additional points to consider when buying, for example, a phone from a Chinese seller.

I am also enjoying the renewed emphasis upon Australian-made products. I've found some very good Australian clothes designers who are increasingly having their garments manufactured in Australia. It can be hard to avoid "made in China" items in some categories, but at least if it's manufactured under contract to a major brand, to Australian specifications, there shouldn't be an issue as it is required to meet certain technical specs.

If you are happy to purchase from Chinese sellers, of course pre-empt foreseeable issues by avoiding those whose feedback is less than 99.5%, and check through the negative feedback to see if there are consistent problems. Check the "brand" item specification in the listing, and ignore any promise of warranty (because that is entirely unenforceable).

I absolutely refuse to purchase electronic/electrical items from Chinese sellers, because the risk of its being an unbranded item churned out in any one of the millions of Chinese factories that produce rapid turnover spec-ignoring items (whose components are made of the cheapest possible raw material even if those raw materials cannot bear the use to which the item is intended to be put) is simply too great.

For such items, the greatest risk, in my view, is not that the item won't work after a while, or hasn't the full function and capacity promised... It's that the skimping of raw materials for the components is grossly negligent and poses a real safety issue. There are reasons why we have Australian safety standards.

Just generally speaking... I would love to see eBay do more to weed out fraudulent sellers. However, they will not take action against Chinese sellers, as the Chinese marketplace is one eBay is desperate to maintain, particularly in light of their very rocky history in China.

Regarding lengthy delivery times and fake tracking numbers... Logistics companies that specifically work in conjunction with AP allow Chinese eBay sellers to generate AP tracking numbers even before the purchased item has left the shores of China. If you look at the second link that I included above, you'll see another link within that reply re "Just in time fulfillment". This is how items in China (or possibly on the high seas between China & Australia, or in a warehouse belonging to one of the aforementioned logistics compnaies) can be claimed to have item location "Dandenong, Australia" or "Alice Springs" or "Sydney" or simply "Australia, Australia". I have seen posts in recent threads complaining about fake tracking numbers where the tracking numbers seem to be AP tracking numbers; it appears to be possible for the sellers in question to generate a tracking number and then to cancel it or never use it, on the assumption (presumably) that enough buyers will be stymied at the outset, or have their fears of INR qualmed, by the mere fact of a tracking number having been provided - at least sufficiently to lodge no claim within the required MBG timeframe.

[sugar249]

I was very interested in this comment you made to ''tipping point''  to quote ''And a point of order, I do not have "a lot of issues buying on ebay". I have been purchasing on this platform (and others) for over two decades, and have done so when based in 3 different continents over that period. The majority have been received without issue. ''

I note that you have now hidden (made private) your feedback so that we can no longer see it,  but prior to that I could see that a lot of the feedback you left for others was either negative or neutral, a lot for non delivery or just picky issues  so your comment to Tipping point about not having a lot of issues with buying on Ebay is really very questionable, and it does raise questions about your due diligence and decision making which you have reflected on in other responses.

Very convenient to hide your feedback.  LOL