on 07-09-201902:50 PM - last edited on 07-09-201904:17 PM by gewens
Im not sure if you can help, but I purchased an 12V inverter from an Ebay seller/manufacturer called and the product has failed after 6 months. The item was advertised with 12mth warranty. I have attempted contacting the seller many times over the last month both directly and via Ebay staff assistance but the will not respond at all. I think this type of problem is common with some Ebay sellers unfortunately, I am sick of being dealt with dishonestly. What rights do I have and what course of action if any can I take to obtain a replacement or refund? Thanks Paul
Your case is not a unique one, unfortunately. You may want to read this post where I cover a similar case.
You say that the product has failed after 6 months, which means that you purchased it more than 6 months ago. I'm sorry; that means that you cannot make any sort of claim under eBay's MBG (deadline for disputes is 30 days after latest Estimated Delivery Date or the actual (tracked) date when it arrived), nor under PayPal Buyer Protection (deadline for disputes is 180 days after the transaction).
You could try a chargeback with your card provider, but I would not suppose that it's possible given that "not as described" is not the same thing as "product failed after successfully using it for a while". Additionally, it's unlikely that your card provider would have a timeframe for chargebacks more than 6 months from the date of purchase. However, you can certainly give that a try.
"Not as described" for an item is its condition upon arrival / first use. If it doesn't work when you try to use it for the first time, or you can see or gauge that it's not as described when you receive it, then as long as you act within 30 days, you're covered by eBay's Money Back Guarantee; if you act within 180 days, you're covered by PayPal Buyer Protection. You'd also be protected by your card provider (chargeback) within whatever timeframe is stated for such issues in the Terms & Conditions that you signed when you accepted your credit card (or - in quite a few cases - debit card).
But if you use the item for a while and an issue arrises, it's actually a warranty issue or consumer legislation issue. Australian consumer legislation only applies if you buy from Australian sellers; an item should not fail within a given time, and should be fit for purpose, etc. Additional to your rights under Australian consumer legislation is any warranty given by the manufacturer. Again, such protection applies if you buy from an Australian seller (authorised seller for the product). For overseas purchases, if you buy from an authorised seller, the manufacturer will generally honour the warranty, but it will be your responsibility to get the item to the manufacturer (overseas) and get the item back, which could see the cost, even under warranty, ballooning ridiculously.
(Some buyers use or think of PayPal Buyer Protection in the same way as they'd use or think of product warranty. If a product exhibits an issue or develops an issue before the PayPal dispute timeframe is lapsed, they may try to get a refund on the basis of "not as described"; this is a fraudulent misuse of that protection. If, however, the item's issues are a result of the item not being as described - i.e., a fake being sold as a brand name item - then as long as the buyer acts within the 180-day timeframe for a PayPal dispute, they should be fortunate enough to be protected from what would have been a poor buying choice. Ditto for eBay's MBG re fraudulent claims...)
The bottom line is that the warranty of a Chinese seller is as substantial as an expulsion of wind in the nether regions.
Thanks for your advise, I have not used this forum previously so hence my error with the naming of the company!
I have now been caught twice with China sellers not honouring warranty, the first time I put down to bad luck, so when purchased again I chose this supplier ONLY because they had a 100% satisfaction feedback and had sold thousands of items, so I thought they were fine to purchase from. Now I relaise that means very little also if in my case the unit failed in 6.5 months.
So why dont Ebay remove sellers like this from being able to trade? I have been communicating with Ebay about this but not getting anywhere. The are dishonest and should not be able to trade. We should have to put up with traders such as these and have no way of knowing if they are truthful with their advertising or not.
So whats the answer for us all, just dont buy any products from China?? That shouldt be the answer....?
Any ideas or suggestions on how to improve my ebay purchasing skills would be appreciated, Paul
Ebay Au can't/won't do anything about Chinese sellers.
They say it is up to ebay CN. But they still take their fees from them.
As for dishonesty, isn't it the same for all sellers no matter what nationality?
If people would stop buying from Chinese sellers, buying cheap and expecting quality,
then they would fall below par and be stopped from selling.
But that ain't gunna happen.
As for knowing if they are Chinese traders, check their feedback page to see where they are registered. They might say they are Australian stock, but most likely it wil come from China.
You want cheap, buy Chinese, but it won't be quality.
Do not ever buy electrical items from China. They do not pass Aus Standards and could very likely be dangerous. A woman was killed by a simple phone charger a couple of years ago.
Paul, different people on these forums will have different experiences and preferences, all of which colours what advice they give about buying from Chinese sellers.
I personally don't buy from Chinese sellers as a general rule.
I have mostly managed to dissuade my father from buying from Chinese sellers, although he resisted in one memorable instance with regard to a cello bow. (He wanted a good quality bow to replace his previous one; I told him that the so-called pernambuco bow being sold by Chinese seller were almost certainly not genuine Brazilwood. He bought one anyway. In the meantime I'd contacted a Romanian instrument-maker and ordered a beautifully balanced, flexible, lovely-looking round bow (nickel-wound, made of pernambuco wood, 4/4 size). The one I bought for him came out the winner in every way, but the Chinese one really only started to show how much poorer it was after a couple of years. (Even after it arrived, it would have been very hard to tell that the wood was NOT pernambuco, but the balance and workmanship were not as good as the Romanian bow.)
One of the problems with buying from Chinese sellers is that - in my opinion - most of the work goes into making the product look as right as possible, and secondarily into ensuring that the product works superficially as required. By "superficially", I mean that the average buyer would not realise that what they've bought is not of the same quality as a genuine branded item made to specific product specifications under contract to a particular company, and by "quality", I mean safety, performance, components used to withstand the product's intended user.
An apt analogy - very topical - is comparing those recently built high-rise apartments which have been in the news of late (Opal Tower, Mascot Towers, etc.) for all the wrong reasons (cracks, defects, dangerous to live in, substandard, failing to meet construction standards) with a well-built apartment where the construction company followed every single protocol, met every single building code, used quality materials throughout, and which can safely be lived in for years to come without any issues or defects arising.
That's because the very same factories in which Chinese will manufacture goods under contract to companies, using the required materials for components, with full quality control, may also be used by the same Chinese to produce knock-offs of the very products they are legitimately producing. (Of course, it needn't be the same factories; some are dedicated factories that only deal with knock-offs, some will only produce legitimate goods for the specific company/companies, but it is not unusual for a factory to be doing dual duty - fake and legitimate.) The knock-offs will use the very cheapest components and raw materials that can be got away with. Bad enough when this is for textiles and makeup and perfumes (think of potentially or known carcinogenic dyes or fixatives in wool or fabric; known irritants and/or toxic substances in makeup and fragrances)... but it's perhaps even worse when it comes to electronic/electrical goods. Components that can't tolerate what happens when the item is used, or will only tolerate it for a short time before failing because the raw materials are not used as required by the product specs - that isn't just about failure of the item, but potentially about fire, shock, explosion - and hence to tragic outcomes.
(It's not about brand snobbery, but about goods being fit for purpose.)
There isn't any chance of holding Chinese sellers or manufacturers to account for this. Chinese law is very different to Australian law (or western consumer legislation or laws concerning intellectual property), and Chinese culture is considerably more complex than our more relaxed culture. We can talk about "face" without really understanding it... but businessmen/women who deal successfully with Chinese people will only do so by getting to grips with how Chinese business and Chinese relationships and culture are related, how honour and status and the use of deception can interplay with each other. I've touched on this before (here and here and here). In essence, it is not considered shameful in Chinese culture to lie or misrepresent or sell counterfeits, if we understand that the counterbalance of the lie is the act of being deceived.
If I use the example of an average eBay buyer who sees an item for which they'd usually pay $xxx.00, but which is listed on eBay for - say - 50% less than the RRP, or even less than that, it wouldn't require much for that average buyer to realise that they must be buying a product that is not exactly the same as the item for which they'd normally pay $xxx.00. If the buyer gave it a few minutes' thought, they'd realise that
*The unbranded issue muddies the waters, because it's confusing. A product made in a Chinese factory could be tailored to several different brands/companies with no actual difference in the item itself. Sometimes the tailoring is minimal and contradictory - such as when the item itself has some sort of generic name on the item, but the box in which it comes and the instruction booklet with it are tailored. Customers are - understandably - prone to be baffled when what looks like exactly the same item is marketed with different names and by different companies. In reality, none of these companies have any "design real estate" in the product itself. They've just picked out the item in a Chinese supplier catalogue and said, "Yes, we'll add that to our line". AND... of course ... the very same item will be being sold by that Chinese factory/manufacturer on eBay or Amazon or Alibaba and so on, with brand name simply left blank.
The Chinese sellers doing business with western individuals / companies / buyers will actually gain face if they fool the westerner who buys a counterfeit. Why? Because the counterfeit item is cheaper (foolish westerner thinks he can get genuine quality without paying anywhere near RRP - i.e., behaves foolishly; foolish westerner cannot discern genuine from fake - i.e., is a fool). The social equation is... Chinese seller gains face, western buyer loses face.
The Chinese sellers doing business with western individuals / companies / buyers will also gain face when the item is unbranded. For instance, business chooses generic apple slicer/corer from Chinese manufacturer catalogue, has boxes and instruction leaflets printed, may have sticker or printing on apple slicer/corer but more likely won't. That business probably doesn't realise it's a non-exclusive deal (or will be lied to about it); seller can re-sell the same deal to a thousand other companies. Result: consumers confused and potentially outraged as they realise they've bought another apple slicer/corer that's exactly the same as the one they bought months ago from another brand/company (and which broke or didn't perform as well as promised). Further result: not only the company loses face, but every single consumer buying that item from every western company who sells that item under their brand also loses face; Chinese manufacturer/seller gains face.
Without any further ado, I'll just state that I buy what I determine to be worthwhile, with an eye to quality, functionality, beauty and warranty above any issue of price. I believe that buying good quality items is a better economy than buying cheaply. I don't believe in buying ridiculously expensive designer products just because of the label; that's just as stupid as buying a "genuine Rolex" from a grubby man in a dark alley. I infinitely prefer it when the product is made in the brand's own country rather than in China or Thailand or Malaysia or some other country where slave wages result in ridiculously cheap manufacture (i.e., made in Australia, made in the UK, made in Italy, made in Germany, made in France, made in Switzerland, made in the USA, made in Japan (e.g., Tojiro knives) - you get the idea). If the product is made in China, it must be under licence to product specs of the brand. If I need the item to be under warranty, buying Australian is the way to go.
There's the saying that one gets what one pays for, and by and large that is true. Looking for the best deal is great (and I do look for the best deals) - but I will only consider sellers who are authorised, since I cannot otherwise be sure that the product is genuine. Be alert: sometimes even what looks like an authorised seller - a major name or chain of stores - will actually be selling counterfeits, so I believe in being vigilant and doing thorough checking before buying.
i have the same problem from a maylsian seller i complained to ebay but they say theirs nothing they can do so therefore ebay is allowing scamming lying sellers use this site they know about it yet they do nothing to stop it from happening they should have a clause that seller must honer there warranty or ebay will refund the amount in full but that will never happen as ebay makes to much money from these sellers
