a most disrespectful business

[soundsugly]

This may be the last time I post in these pages. I have often thought about giving eBay the middle finger salute and taking my business elsewhere, but like an abused spouse I just seem to keep coming back. Before I throw in the towel for good tho, I would like to explain my reasons to someone who, unlike the many helpdesk workers I have spoke to in the last month, may be willing to listen to me.

Perhaps my experience might strike a chord with some of you. If so, I'd like to hear from you.

I have been an ebay seller for over 10 years, turning over about $8000 a month. What started as a hobby has now become my primary income - all legit with the tax office too. Until recently I was considering expanding my business and possibly employing someone to assist with mundane chores such as data enrty and answering questions.

In the last month I have seen my seller performance drop to below average, lost my power seller status, and am now unable to list under my ebay store subscrition. All of this inspite of an excellent DSR and consistently high feedback.

The reason has to do with recent policy changes which make it impossible for me to invoice my buyers with the correct postage charges.

Over the last few months certain functions have been removed from the checkout postage. At varying times the 'request combined postage' option has disappeared from the checkout, as has the 'send revised invoice' feature from selling manager. Up until very recently the 'send invoice to buyer' was also removed from the bottom of email notifications. In some instances buyers report being required to make immediate payment through paypal, even tho this condition was not stipulated by me in the listing. And god help anyone using a phone app that wishes to make multiple purchases. There seems ot be no choice but to pay multiple lots of postage and then complain about being overcharged..

This is where it starts to unravel. These changes all seem to have come since eBay decided it was fair to charge sellers a pecentage of the shipping fee, even tho this is a cost, which must be carried by the buyer or the seller, not a profit to which ebay would be rightly entitled to its fair share. I wouldn't be so cynical as to suggest that ebay are playing this to their advantage by making it harder for sellers to offer combined shipping, but I'll admit that the thought has crossed my mind.

Under current policy, a seller who initiates a paypal refund where there is no dispute incurrs a 'defect' on the transaction. The same thing happens if you cancel a transaction specifying out of stock as a reason. (The second option - buyer has requested a refund or changed his their mind is often confusiing to buyers who must agree to the cancellation in order for the seller to recoup their fees.) 

In recent months I have had a couple of large sales where the buyer has overpaid and requested a refund, or, seeing the excessive total in the checkout has elected to pay by 'other'. In these instances the only option for me is to refund the payment in total or cancel the sale. To comply with ebay policy as best I can I tried relisting combined orders under the title PRIVATE SALE and included the correct price and fixed postage price in the listing. That seemed to work, the buyers paid the correct shipping and ebay collected the appropriate fee.

As a result of this my April performance evaluation put me below standard. I can't relist items as they expire or create any new listings, and the sudden drop-off in sales indicates that my items fallen to the bottom of the search results. I have contacted customer support on an almost daily basis and sent numerous emails. I am yet to speak to the same representative twice, and the responses I get to my emails, at least the ones written in a version of english that's recognisable, indicate that the they havent read, or understood the question.

On the odd occasion where I've felt like I've made some progress, I've then received different advice from the next rep. For instance I was told that once my seller evaluation returned an above avarage result I could request a higher selling limit. Nuh-uh. My last evaluation puts me at 'above standard' and when I spoke to trust and safety I was told I need to wait another 30 days. "Before we can increase your selling limit, we need to make sure that you are consistent giving excellent products and services to your buyers."

For the sake of ever loving f###. I have been consistently giving excellent service to my buyers for over 10 years with many repeat customers. If eBay simply dont want my money I guess thats an outcome I'd just have to deal with. But when they cant be bothered, or are incapable of dealing with a problem that goes a little off-script, it is just plain frustrating. Even more fristrating is this is a problem THEY CREATED.

Presently I have a leaking roof, my car rego is due and it doesn't look like I'll be able to make my mortgage payment this month.

I guess this was bound to happen, so my advice to anyone with inititative and a sensible business idea considering opening an ebay store is just dont bother. Unless you are dop-shipping cheap plastic gizmo's out of a factory in southern China, its just not worth the agony.

Thanks for listening to my story. If anyone from eBay is employed to moderate these forums, and suffficiently connected within the larger business to bring my complaint to the attention of someone who doesn't work in a call centre, I'd like to hear from you also.

[soundsugly]

I apologise for the typographical errors in the above post. Ebay wont let me edit it. Nor delete it and try again. Control freaks much?

[comcol]

Your issue is just one of MANY with EBay.

Simply put, Ebay are nothing but thieves and extremely dishonest.

They actually WANT you to go. 

They brought in the best match scam in order to have no more than two sellers per catagory. Everyone else they do not want. That is why you will find the same seller is always on top of all searches.

You will find that you may have been taken off the 'protected sellers' list (if you were one) for some reason if your sales have dropped dramatically.

I went from 60 desktop systems a month to zero with the introduction of best match. Have never recovered and never will. No matter what price you sell for the adds will never go above the 'protected seller' in my catagory. EBay simply will not allow it.

This is just one of NUMEROUS scams and rorts Ebay is involved in.

People are leaving it in droves. They are sick of being treated like dirt. For Ebay to take a couple of thousand or more a month in fees and not even have the courtesy to respond to emails or solve issues says everything about what they are.

I used to be angry at those who scammed or stole on Ebay as it was bad for everyones business. Now I could not care who scams them. After all, they steal and rip off a huge number of sellers on here now. 

[clarry100]

We are a much smaller operator than you are but EBay sales are nonetheless our primary source of income too. Recent declines in sales have us seriously worried about the future on here.
Since the start of this MBG policy we have been growing increasingly despondent with the way EBay are treating their sellers. To the point now where we have commenced selling on other venues including our own web site. Early indications are quite positive.
We are now working to establish those other venues with s view to being able to cease operations on EBay entirely in the near future.
With dwindling sales it seems no longer worth the hassles to remain here.
So if you haven't done so already I would recommend you explore other business solutions. We should have taken some of our eggs out of the basket sooner.

[opmania]

I feel sorry for you in this situation

So many stories like yours on these boards

Good sellers are leaving in droves either by choice or are forced

Out by policy changes

And once you have been ousted  there is no coming back in most

cases. 

Combined postage problems as you described are mentioned

Here frequently. 

I have been selling here for about three years but not on such

A large scale but it did help pay the bills

I haven't listed anything for about three months because it is 

No longer a even playing field

Try phoning cs not emailing and ask for a supervisor

Although your chances are not good at this stage

Your Own website sounds like the way to go b for you

Because you have been so successful you may be able to get a

Government grant to set it up if you go to  centerlink

Just a thought you could look into

[jensmanchester-australia]

Sorry to hear this but I will address a few of your concerns which might help in the future.

In some instances buyers report being required to make immediate payment through paypal –

When you have had this issue have you checked the listing to see if it is the buyer misunderstanding the payment instructions or whether in actual fact instant payment is showing on the listing. Many buyers think that when the Pay Now button comes up that means they have to pay immediately. I have had this conversation on several occasions with buyers and every time it has been a misunderstanding of the payment process by the buyer.

Over the last few months certain functions have been removed from the checkout postage –

I have never had functions disappear from checkout so not sure what is causing that problem. I have never had a problem sending combined invoices either. I do know however that the ebay app for mobile devices can cause problems. When this happens suggest the buyer use the classic view on their mobile or make payment from a PC.

You can also set up postage rules for buyer that purchase multiple items so they don’t need to wait for an invoice to be sent.

Under current policy, a seller who initiates a paypal refund where there is no dispute incurrs a 'defect' on the transaction. The same thing happens if you cancel a transaction specifying out of stock as a reason. (The second option - buyer has requested a refund or changed his their mind is often confusiing to buyers who must agree to the cancellation in order for the seller to recoup their fees.) 

I have done lots of cancellations when the buyer has changed their mind and never received a defect for them.

If a buyer has requested a refund as they have changed their mind or made an error if the message comes through the ebay message system and you choose the option buyer has requested a refund or changed their mind no defect is issued. If the buyer does not respond to the cancellation request then ebay automatically close it after about 10 days and the seller gets the fees back.

If however you have run out of stock and that is the reason for the cancellation then yes a defect is issued as it is considered a bad buying experience.

In recent months I have had a couple of large sales where the buyer has overpaid and requested a refund, or, seeing the excessive total in the checkout has elected to pay by 'other'. In these instances the only option for me is to refund the payment in total or cancel the sale. To comply with ebay policy as best I can I tried relisting combined orders under the title PRIVATE SALE and included the correct price and fixed postage price in the listing. That seemed to work, the buyers paid the correct shipping and ebay collected the appropriate fee.

If a buyer has overpaid sending a partial refund through Paypal does not incur a defect. In these situations it is not necessary to fully refund and relist the item(s) – you simply refund the overpaid amount.

Good luck with your business and I hope you get it back to the level you reached.

[roseworthy11]

Jensmanchester, it is too late for the OP.

Your sage advice will not help the OP.

"Good luck with your business and I hope you get it back to the level you reached"

This cannot happen.

Once an account reaches Below Standard and Ebay restrict your listing ability to a very low level, you simply cannot get your percentage back up to 5% and under. And when your transactions are too few to keep you in the 3 month measurement, you go out to the 12 month measurement, where the defect system is applied retrospectively and you are penalised heavily for making choices as a seller back then, eg cancelling for a reason that now earns a defect, that you had no idea would hurt you in the future when you did it back then.

Jen, I appreciate that you are an excellent and experienced seller. I also appreciate that you understand the policies and that you take the trouble to share your knowledge with others.

However, not every seller has been able to decipher the consequences of the new policies, let alone even know where to find them or how to apply them. And some of the new return and seller defect policies have changed as Ebay has ab libbed as they have gone along.

Yes, you are right, the OP has misunderstood some of the Ebay policies, but pointing that out now is not going to help him. He cannot recover from where he is.

Once a seller's account falls below standard, for reasons that are often to do with buyer subjectivity, you can rarely recover your account to 5% or under.

This is particularly true for sellers of second hand items, what ever category, as the product received by the buyer is more open to subjective defects being earned by the seller. The majority of the OPs listings are for second hand items. It is evident that the OP may not be aware fully of what the defects are that have caused their account to fall below standard or where to even find and understand that information.

Experienced and successful sellers like yourself, who are on top of where to find the Ebay polices, understand what they mean and what their consequences are, - are very very lucky.

There are many many many small sellers and even medium sized sellers on Ebay, especially of second hand items, who still don't know that there is such a thing as a seller dashboard or where to even find it and what it even means. Ebay has NOT made their return and defect policies user friendly for sellers - it is almost like Ebay has set up many small sellers to fail- and it is evident that when a seller rings CS for help, they can be told different things because it is evident that many CS staff do not even understand the new policies. Many sellers do not even know that an Ebay community exists, or even where to find it, to go to for help or information.

It appears that once a sellers account has been below standard for 3 consecutive months, Ebay then restrict the account from any listing what so ever. You receive a lovely email from Ebay saying that you are no longer welcome to list or sell anything on Ebay because you upset too many buyers and their research shows that upset buyers leave Ebay. But you are still very welcome to buy on Ebay whenever you want.

This total listing and selling ban is so confusing for sellers. They are told they can no longer sell on Ebay as they have upset too many buyers with poor service. Yet, they gave the best service ever, accepting returns and refunds, cancelling orders, doing their best to keep customers happy and giving good customer service. What makes it even more confusing is they only upset 22 buyers over the last 12 months, yet they see very large Chinese sellers and big Australian sellers with negative and neutral feedback in the hundreds, sometimes the high hundreds, upsetting so many customers.

And what makes it worse, is Ebay then hide your seller dashboard when they restrict you totally from selling - you can see your feedback, but not your seller dashboard, or download your defect report, therefore you cannot even work out what went wrong, even if you had no idea about the seller dashboard.

How do I know this Jen? Because it has happened to me. One of my accounts has 22 defects over a 12 month period, fell below standard and was restricted from listing what so ever after 3 months. When it fell below standard, I thought that I would list a heap of inexpensive items and get the defect percentage up. As I put that idea into place and began listing, whammo, I couldn't list lots of items because I was restricted, I could only list 40 items a month or up to $200 worth (whether is was free listings or whether I was happy to pay $1.50 for each listing - which I was, but Ebay would not let me list any more because of the restrictions). If all of those 40 items had sold, I would have been alright, but only 3 sold and the other 37 couldn't be relisted as I had the restrictions. Once your account reaches below standard, many sellers will not be able to bring it up again.

Compare this selling ID that I am posting on. This selling ID is TRS, but it already has 14 defects, but because I have a lot of transactions, my defect rate is only 1.61 %.

On this posting ID, I have upset 14 buyers, yet I am still top rated and I have no listing restriction on this account what so ever.

Yet on my other Ebay ID that I am never allowed to sell on again (but Ebay are so kindly going to let me continue to buy on) I upset 22 buyers, that is only 8 more buyers than this posting ID. I have 2 negative only and 2 neutrals only on the other restricted account, and lots and lots of positive feedback from buyers who were very happy.
However, that ID has been restricted from listing or selling forever, but this posting ID is "loved" by Ebay.

By the way, because I have one ID restricted, Ebay then restricted another of my smaller IDs because it was "associated" with the restricted account. I fully expect Ebay to go through and restrict every single one of my accounts because they are all associated, (2 are actually currently TRS). I actually have no idea why Ebay have not already done that, as that is their policy, but I am totally expecting it to happen, and every day when I check my Ebay messages, I think will this be the day? I will not fight it or appeal it, I am just going to leave Ebay when they do it. I was paying Ebay a total of $30 000 a year in fees, so that is what they will be losing when they restrict all of my accounts, which I am expecting to happen and don't understand why it has not been done yet.

Ebay have also lost me totally as a buyer. On the day that my other ID was restricted, I was incredibly upset, I have sold on Ebay for 15 years, and have been loyal to Ebay as a buyer and a seller during that time. On the day Ebay restricted my first account, for the reasons outlined above, I swore that I will never ever buy another item on Ebay ever ever again - and I have not, and never ever will. I will walk on hot coals to China to find a shop to buy something from than ever buy anything on Ebay again - cutting off my nose to spite my face - I know, but I am maintaining my personal dignity. Ebay has caused me an emotional wound by its stupid, unbalanced and unfairly implemented and unecessary policies

The Op's story and my story are the same as many many seller stories that are now on the Ebay UK and US forums and social media. Ebay are letting sellers fall off in droves through being restricted and Ebay's reason - that you have upset too many buyers - simply doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers of buyers who are being upset by large Ebay sellers and Chinese Ebay sellers.

I have written this because I think that many very successful sellers on Ebay who understand the return and defect policies and also understand the various consequences, and have never gone below 2% defect rate, let alone the 5% defect rate, simply cannot understand or even connect to the angst and upset being experienced by many small sellers at the hands of the new seller defect system. I have also written this to say, yes, it has happened to me, and neither myself nor the OP are defective in any way - it is Ebay who are defective.

If I had not had a small account totally restricted from selling as it was below standard for 3 months in a row with 22 defects over a 12 month period and no hope or way to lift the percentages, then I would not understand either. But, now I do understand and I hope my post, although not relieving the angst of any seller that is being and has been restricted, will help sellers that this is happening to realise that it is not them, it is the ill thought out highly unfair and unjust implementation by Ebay of this stupid defect system and you have my heartfelt sympathy and hugs.

[clarry100]

Hence why I say... I would recommend you explore other business solutions... We are now, but should have done so earlier. We don't feel safe at all and since online selling is our primary source of financial support we need to protect ourselves. We are no longer able to do this on ebay so we now have an exit strategy plan in place.

Good luck to all!

[collect247]

In the same boat,2 accounts already gone and this account is just under the 5% so I just need 1 more defect and I'm definately gone on this account also.

But I already noticed a penalty on this account which is the 3 free relistings are no more so the signs are already showing.

Thanks ebay!

[roseworthy11]

I am sorry this has happened to you - yet if I look at the feedback on this account of yours, that you have posted with here, you have no negatives and no neutrals, only positive feedback, with no revised feedback, yet your account is nearly below standard.

Ebay have been operating this new seller defect system since 1st Aug last year in the Uk and the US and since 1st Nov here in Australia.

With the UK and the US boards and social media full of talk that many many very good small Ebay sellers have been kicked off Ebay by Ebay because of falling below standard with the new seller defect system, to me, if Ebay were concerned about this, they would have started reversing and correcting this debacle by now.

But they are not, they are proceeding full steam ahead and making it even harder for sellers to get defects removed if they contact CS.

Therefore, the only conclusion to draw, is that this was a cruel and systematic deliberate action on Ebay's part to get rid of many sellers as possible over a given period of time, with many very good small sellers being the first to go.

I, for one, am taking my buying actions with me as well. That's the only dignity that I have been left with.